AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

All those demanding flexibility it is a one way street. What are they giving back?
What about colleagues who have to cover attend meetings at times that don't work for them. But hey if those avoiding childcare fees are happy that is all that matters.?
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This type of flexibility works on the basis that everyone has lives and commitments not just people with children.

So really your answer sounds very childish and petty. Actually everyone benefits.

What do people give back?
Loyalty, commitment , productivity or at least they do where I am.

But you crack on in your world full of pisstakers who " give nothing back".

[quote Fetarabbit]@Nyxs assuming you mean the poster you reference who quoted a post? If there are people picking up the slack then it's not unreasonable for them to flag their concerns re the workload they're expected to do to their managers, why shouldn't they? Its then up to the manager to figure out if its feasible and if they have followed the correct process, or have just decided to pop in and out as they please.[/quote]
Yes, if its a real problem. That the person has agrees hours and starts after 9am. Feel free to raise it in a professional way with your own manager. If its causing you more work. Not stand having f a pop at them and demanding private information from the person.

Because ota the managers job to resolve it. That doesn't always mean by telling the person they must start earlier.

Going from op it would mean an entire change of contract. For one weekly meeting. And if this person loses flexibility would everyone else?

And there's nothing to say, because you work flexibly, you are doing less work than people working 9-5. You could flexibly work and still do more than everyone else

[quote sunglassesonthetable]@Nyxs

No I had a massive bold fail, as per, didn't agree with any of it!

In fact the opposite.😁[/quote]
Apologies 😳😳😳

😄👍🏻

[quote StepAwayFromGoogling]@LaetitiaASD - 50% of managers hate their staff for demanding a tiny bit of flexibility?! FFS, that's ridiculous

But the point is you have to have had that chat with your manager and agree that flexibility, surely? You don't get to decide apropos of nothing that you just aren't turning up because it doesn't suit you.[/quote]
In my experience of office jobs bosses tend not to be overly petty about start times because they know staff ALWAYS do unpaid overtime, pretty much every lunchtime and every day.

Turning up 10 mins late or leaving at 3pm to watch a football match during the world cup is regarded as totally normal because most the odd 10 mins most days, or the odd few hours on special occasions, is nothing compared to working through lunch staying an hour later day in day out.

If bosses want to be petty they lose because people return the pettiness or quit.

Bosses would never schedule a meeting for 9am because they can't guarantee everyone would be there (trains get cancelled and delayed and traffic is bad even if everyone tries to arrive on time)

we don't have official core hours. The company is reasonably flexible but 9am has always been considered a standard working time and 9am meetings are not unusual

Here lies your problem. If there are no official core hour, the company is flexible and its not specified that people must work from 9am then you can't just impose your own preferences on people.

Just move the meetings to 915 or 930.

@MiddleParking

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

Precisely this. It happened in an Old workplace of mine where we had flexi, boss wouldn’t even move it to 9.10. This was in the days before breakfast clubs and it caused no end of problems for people, especially as we had several husbands and wives working there Don’t be that dick boss

If you are the boss you can stipulate when the meeting is. Isn't that what always happens. What isn't acceptable is co workers expecting their needs to be prioritised over other colleagues needs.

Please enlighten me why someone would think that?

Honestly cannot believe the sense of entitlement on this thread. If you need to be in a meeting at 9am, and you need to prep, then surely you just do it the afternoon before? Why on earth would you be thoroughly unproductive in the meeting unless it started at 9:15 or 9:30? That's incredibly unprofessional.
I start work at 8am. I have an informal arrangement with my manager that I can nip over the road to drop the kids at school when I WFH. That said, if a meeting goes in my diary at 8:30 then I have to make other arrangements. I don't tell 10 people they need to find another time because I've got to get my kids to school!!!

I work in the Tech industry. I have 2 DC. I don’t do calls before 10am and one day a week I don’t do calls from 3pm-6pm as I do the school pick up (childminder picks up on other days) and take DC to activities. I make all of this clear to my colleagues, customers and managers, no-one bats an eyelid.

I get my work done. I don’t expect anyone to cover for me. If I have to work a bit late to finish something (rarely the case), so be it.

I’m cringing at some of the ridiculous “you must be at your desk at 9am otherwise your colleagues have to pick up the slack” comments on here. I sense some bitterness and jealousy from those of who really resent parents who work flexibly. Why the hate? Children are important and I’m sorry it grips your shit that some people would rather take their children to school at 9am than sit on your dry Zoom call.

The 9-5 model is dead, hastened by the pandemic which proved millions of people can work from home under their own steam and timetable and manage just fine (I’m obviously not referring to jobs in the service industry etc).

So how can I retrain in one of these roles 😁

@Parker231 some people think their kids are more important than work, but there you go

If you are talking about the "entitlement" of people with children who need to sort out school runs and childcare, then you are subscribing to a delusional model of the world that excludes women.

It's not "entitlement" to expect to be able to do that AND contribute at work.

It's "entitlement" to assume that nobody professional can possibly have to do that....

[quote Dguu6u]@Parker231 some people think their kids are more important than work, but there you go[/quote]
The world includes both kids and work. Any workplace that pretends that family life doesn't exist is actively excluding women. It's also contributing to a culture where men are excluded from family life.

Instead of having one parent excluded from contributing at work, and one parent excluded from participating in family life, why don't we just make it normal for both parents to be able to do both?

I sense some bitterness and jealousy

I agree! If you are jealous of people who can work flexibly, it's not a race to the bottom!

Why are some posters fixated on thinking everyone who doesn't work 9-5 has childcare issues? My DC are adults - everyone in my organisation sets their hours, parent or not. Yes, sometimes that does mean they will work at weekends or all night. Nobody cares so long as people are working the contracted number of hours and aren't working too many hours.

Some of the posters on here seem really bitter and twisted because other posters work for employers who don't insist on set contracted hours.

[quote Dguu6u]@Parker231 some people think their kids are more important than work, but there you go[/quote]
I would've hoped most people thought their kids were more important than work...

I probably sound bitter because where I work, the only people getting flexibility are the parents. The rest of us are picking up whatever needs doing when the school runs are on. Coupled with the way childless employees were chucked under the bus during the lockdowns, too right I’m jaded with it. I’m glad that it works better where others work albeit that the parents where I work all say it works great too!

@AudacityBaby that's shit and really unfair

@unim - not sure if that was directed at me. No, it's not entitled to be able to work and do some school runs/childcare, providing you've agreed that with your employers or have flexible working in place. What is entitled is to agree to a working pattern e.g. 9-4 and then decide you can't possibly attend a meeting at 9am or you need to take half an hour off twice a day to drop the kids at school.

It's not jealousy - if my kids were young now and I wanted to do the school run, I'd request flex working, either to limit myself to 9.30-2.45, or if I couldn't afford the resultant cut in pay, I'd do 9.30-5.30, so I could cover drop off and arrange childcare for pickup.

No problem with people making actual flexible working requests. Skiving off for 30 mins or more twice a day on the pretext of I'll cover that work after hours is just unprofessional.

As a colleague said in a (8am) meeting the other day, what about when our company policy changes to require us in the office (could happen at any time, many companies have gone back 3+ days a week) - how will these people manage these arrangements then?!

@ColinTheKoala

A significant percentage of roles in areas like finance, banking, law just to name a few won't exist in a few years due to automation/ tech advancement; many posters on this thread are on the right track to ensure they won't be among the ones whose services are retained

my job can't be done by a machine.

However, I'll be retired in a decade anyway.

As for all those feckless mothers expecting everyone else to cover for them - before I had ds I didn't care if a colleague went home early to attend a nativity play or something. In fact I felt a bit sorry for them having to sit through it. There seem to be quite a few bitter and twisted people. I know there can be ridiculous rules around who gets time off Christmas but if that's the case you find a new job before next Christmas! Otherwise I really wouldn't care.

I’m not going to just find a new job every time I come across an employer that won’t let childless staff have Xmas off. That’s mad even by MN standards!

I'm surprised at how many people are annoyed and seemingly outraged about a meeting at 9am . I think flexibility is great if the job allows it- either through flexi time with core hours or other arrangements. If the job allows then disappearing for the school run shouldn't be an issue, but if there needs to be x people at all times to take calls from customers or whatever, or as in this case meetings fall at certain times then perhaps its not suitable. Like any job it depends.

I think for some sectors and professions it has become an employees market, but that has been the case for a while in tech etc. For many jobs though most people are replacable, not that it should mean employers treat people like crap or whatever, but I do think some people's entitlement runs beyond their value to the company.

Be interested to know how many men do the school runs during their working day though.

@jagoda Thank you! Sorry if I came across grumpy - it’s a sore spot!

@Grenlei I do understand that. However, that's not the situation OP describes. It's not a workplace where there are set hours, neither is mine.

For many of us, including the OP workplace from what she has said, you can work 8 - 2 Monday, 9 - 7 Tuesday, 10 - 5 Weds, 8 - 6 Thursday, etc etc. So long as my diary is up to date, it's all happy days. If someone sends me a meeting invitation and I can't make it, I just decline it.

If they really need me to be there they will have emailed me beforehand and said "Jagoda I really need you to attend this meeting with ABC about XYZ, what's best for you next week?" If they haven't bothered, and it clashes with my plans, I am not attending.

"I’m cringing at some of the ridiculous “you must be at your desk at 9am otherwise your colleagues have to pick up the slack” comments on here. I sense some bitterness and jealousy from those of who really resent parents who work flexibly. Why the hate? Children are important and I’m sorry it grips your shit that some people would rather take their children to school at 9am than sit on your dry Zoom call."

I think this shows a lack of understanding of other workplaces. It might be that you have allotted work so it's your sole responsibility to finish that and nothing else. In that case flexibility doesn't affect me so crack on. However, where I worked, I had allotted work plus if other staff people were absent because of child problems, I had to cover their work as well. Remember your children are important to you; they're not that important to me.