AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

Had a job where my manager was fine with me starting 9.10 am to accommodate the school run, next job they insisted on a 9am start (just because no real reason), and forced me to pay for 10 minutes breakfast club. I left fairly swiftly and now have a job that fits in with my needs. You need to be flexible as an employer or you'll lose people and also get a reputation for being an arsehole

@Goldenbear

Employer's should 'pander' or be considerate of childcare needs as that is how you ensure diversity in your workforce, that is how you ensure your workforce reflects the diversity of your client base, the consumer or the general public and that is essential if you want your organisation to succeed at what at does! These small people i.e children, that some employers would rather pretend didn't exist, are future tax payers (consumers) basically people that will fund your existence when you are too old to do so- why have so much disdain for the people i.e employees who are parents, bringing them up. I find reading the short sighted, ignorant comments on here about pandering to childcare etc. So frustrating and anti-feminist and posted on a site named Mumsnet! Absolutely bizarre!!

I agree, and all the bragging about the insane hours people work etc is part of the ridiculous race to the bottom antisocial anti-family agenda that a lot of people in the UK seem to have for some weird reason.

@Overthebow

I’m not asking people to be at the office for the meeting. I couldn’t care less where they dial in from, but do expect them to be available at 9am for it.

Then you need to adjust your expectations in line with your company values.

@julieca

Also OP I don't know what it is like in your sector? In mine, good staff are hard to recruit and these petty ways of working will make it harder to keep staff.

^ this^ In many skilled areas there are more jobs than people available. And in certain areas of tech, resource is likely gold dust.

Employers are going to find this out the hard way.

I run a business and right now it’s impossible to find certain tech skills. We are also putting our own prices up and despite so many on this thread saying “client rules” actually - they don’t either. They need our resources ;we are batting back work at the moment.

I get a feeling that the “9am, client gets what client wants” crowd here have no idea what’s going on in the modern workplace.

@TheKeatingFive

then they aren't in anyway relevant to the OP, whose company doesn't have core hours.

I would actually question the OP's understanding of this, because it would be highly unusual to have absolutely no contracted obligations with regards to hours

But either way, why is she moaning if she knows they have no obligation be working at 9am.

The right thing to do would, if the client couldn't do any other time and this person really couldn't join late, wod be speak to the person before hand.

Not just agree to it, then put an invite in and expect the person to be free.

Times are changing after the pandemic OP. It's the employers time to start being flexible or people will leave for jobs that are (and so many companies are 100x more flexible now than they were in 2019).

You will lose the respect of your staff and probably the actual staff if you try and enforce this, especially as your hours are relatively lax.

But either way, why is she moaning if she knows they have no obligation be working at 9am.

I expect she assumed they did and I would guess that their contracts would prove her right, even if her business doesn't formally talk about 'core hours'.

@TheKeatingFive

But either way, why is she moaning if she knows they have no obligation be working at 9am.

I expect she assumed they did and I would guess that their contracts would prove her right, even if her business doesn't formally talk about 'core hours'.

So she didn't know when she sent the invite. Then went off to investigate the contract. Just to make sure she had it all correct before posting on MN.

I doubt it. I an sure she knew she and others didn't have core hours.

However, when she posted here she knew. So still moaning about someone not being available, when they have no obligation to be.

@Ghoulette

Times are changing after the pandemic OP. It's the employers time to start being flexible or people will leave for jobs that are (and so many companies are 100x more flexible now than they were in 2019).

You will lose the respect of your staff and probably the actual staff if you try and enforce this, especially as your hours are relatively lax.

Maybe but not on a wide scale. Its a myth that businesses are now working around employees. And really if some one is willing to walk out of a job that is paying their mortgage just because they are expected to be present at a 9am meeting ( a lot of the work force in the U.k have already been at work for sometime before this) then they are unhinged/entitled/going to end up out of work

Go on indeed or total jobs, job hours are specified on nearly every job advert. If you work in law or financial services you are expected to be present and available during working hours. There maybe some sectors that can be extremely flexible but for the majority its business as usual.

@charliesbookmarker no most employers operate flexi time. This is pretty standard. And yes I did get another job. It does depend on your sector. In my sector I just see people posting all the time on industry specific facebook groups for advice about recruitment and recruitment specialists as they are getting no or just rubbish applications.
You can think it is entitled of employees to want the best job they can get, I think that is sensible. And I wouldn't work for a firm like the one your husband runs. I have choices.

This

*Bloody hell my dh business is open to 8pm with clients still trying to contact staff after that time. My lawyer friend is often dealing with clients at 11pm at night.

10 - 2 is fucking part time - that's really made me laugh*

Wow sounds like the 90s.

"You part time, love?" Remember that when leaving to do school pick up.

God, Hope your DH's staff and your lawyer friend, if they have kids, have a "housewife type person" at home to hold it all together.

OP pick your battles and make the meeting 0915…

I worked for a lawyer once. Never again. Total piss takers of other staff,

@charliesbookmarker so your husband employers people expecting long hours, no flexibility, to speak to clients when they need, tells them they won't find work anywhere else.......then wonders why his staff take the piss and are a bit shit?

Truth is, they would find a better job elsewhere.

9am is a terrible time, people want some time to take their coat off, read emails, prepare for meetings, etc.

I would have to come in 20m earlier for that meeting.

So she didn't know when she sent the invite. Then went off to investigate the contract. Just to make sure she had it all correct before posting on MN.

Nope not at all.

I think she assumed everyone was contracted 9-5, but got thrown by the core hours questions and said none, even though that's not accurate. IME some businesses use this term a lot, others don't. However she may have been right in her initial assumption.

What business has no core hours at all? I've never come across an employment contract (as opposed to a freelance one) that suggested you could work literally whenever you wanted.

@TheKeatingFive

So she didn't know when she sent the invite. Then went off to investigate the contract. Just to make sure she had it all correct before posting on MN.

Nope not at all.

I think she assumed everyone was contracted 9-5, but got thrown by the core hours questions and said none, even though that's not accurate. IME some businesses use this term a lot, others don't. However she may have been right in her initial assumption.

What business has no core hours at all? I've never come across an employment contract (as opposed to a freelance one) that suggested you could work literally whenever you wanted.

So she wanted to moan and just made up details.

That makes even less sense.

Actually, 'All hail the long working hours day' needs to be out the window if we are to save the human race from extinction. It is aligned with the values of rampant consumerism and wanting more and more and more, basically the values that got us in to this mess to begin with!

So she wanted to moan and just made up details.

No, she assumed 9-5. Hardly radical.

I think YABU. If this is a valued member of staff then change the meeting time to 9.15. Stop being deliberately difficult or you'll get a reputation and good staff won't want to work for you

If office hours are 9-5 and the worker hasn't agreed with management Flexi working, then yes the worker should be available.

That said, I never start a meeting at a shift start time. I like to allow my team chance to turn their PCs on, grab a coffee and say morning to those sitting near them. I always start a first meeting at 9.30

*@charliesbookmarker so your husband employers people expecting long hours, no flexibility, to speak to clients when they need, tells them they won't find work anywhere else.......then wonders why his staff take the piss and are a bit shit? *

😂😂😂😂😂

I was just thinking that.

We never book meetings earlier than 9.15 / usually 9.30. Give folk a chance!

@Overthebow

I’m not asking people to be at the office for the meeting. I couldn’t care less where they dial in from, but do expect them to be available at 9am for it.

A weekly recurring meeting would be a challenge for me at 9am. I could probably make it work, if I was a key attendee, otherwise I'd be joining at 9.15am. However, I'd have been online earlier in the morning, before the school run rush. The last year has made me thankful to be able to do the daily mundane activities with my children, like the school run.

YANBU OP.

It's more examples of people using WFH as an excuse for being slack. Having been a single parent to 2 children, with a very long commute and having always worked FT, I have fuck all sympathy for people bleating about dialling into a call or Teams meeting at 9 because they HAVE to drop their kids at school.

Either put your hand in your pocket and pay for breakfast club/ childminder/ au pair/ whatever OR request flex working so you start at 9.15 or 9.30.

Unfortunately in our organisation we have a lot of people who seem to think now they are WFH it's carte blanche to say 'Oh I'll start at 8, log off at 8.45, back on at 9.15, off at 2.45 and back on at 3.15' and think that is absolutely fine.

If you want to do that, work 8.30-2.30. Because everyone knows no work gets done in the 45 mins in the morning, you can't make any calls because it's before business hours and the reality is you're running round looking for little Freddie's PE kit or Holly's lunchbox. And after 3.15, there's not much work either due to kids being home and needing a snack, drinks, refereeing etc.

I think the people who complain about this really need to wake up and realise how good they've got it already - flex working/ WFH was never an option 15-20 years ago when my DC were small, and I had to often be out of the house 7am-7pm or longer most days.