AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

@roses2

The amount of entitlement on this thread astounds me. What did people do pre covid for childcare? Did you rock up to work late and leave early? No you didn't. Pay for childcare and act like a professional.

Are all services (childcare/transport etc) back to pre-covid levels?

No, they aren't, so this is a shit argument.

I see the OPs comment about doing your prep for the meeting the night before. I always do this. I still need 5-10 minutes before the meeting to remember key points. I mean if you want me to attend a blah blah blah meeting at 9 am I will. If you want me to attend a meeting that will be productive and I will be totally on the ball, don't expect me to switch on my PC at 9 am and just start.

Also OP I don't know what it is like in your sector? In mine, good staff are hard to recruit and these petty ways of working will make it harder to keep staff.

I too dislike 9am meetings but we have them about 3 times a month, due to time zones (like your situation, OP).

We pay for school breakfast club so I can start on time. You say the colleague is well-paid, I think the onus is on her to at least explain why it isn't possible to join at 9. A flat decline wouldn't fly at my work.

Saying that I'm in a massive cross department meeting right now (around 200). The big cheese, male, senior leader joined at 915 because he was dropping his kids off at school. Kept an eye on numbers, 80 online at 9 now 110 at 915.

Guess what? We record the meeting and crack on.

The pre covid argument is ridiculous. Covid has been a game changer and massive wake up call for many companies. If you want talent, don't treat them like robots.

I feel very sorry for your colleague OP. She deserves better.

@RolloTomassi

I too dislike 9am meetings but we have them about 3 times a month, due to time zones (like your situation, OP).

We pay for school breakfast club so I can start on time. You say the colleague is well-paid, I think the onus is on her to at least explain why it isn't possible to join at 9. A flat decline wouldn't fly at my work.

A lot of schools don't offer ad hoc breakfast clubs. At our school we have fixed days which are paid in advance and there is waiting list.

On the two days a week we don't have before or after school childcare me and my husband have to negotiate our work diaries between us if something gets put in early.

@MiddleParking

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

Why? Trying to run a business while accommodating every school run is impossible. You know your hours, work them whether the day starts with a meeting or group exercise. Nothing wrong with having a meeting at 9am (and we don't know if that's the start of the OPs working day or not), or should employers only start the working day once everyone has made coffee/caught up with gossip and/or arranged their pencils?

9am is a rubbish time for a meeting, everyone hates it. Regardless of school runs, everyone running even a little bit late will miss the start.

I'd move the meeting.

It took a surprisingly long time for our then new departmental manager to realise that those who started work at 9.30am would be unable to attend his 8.30am meetings - so he pushed them back til 9am. He wasn’t overbright.

It's just impractical. Every job I've had has some prep work in the morning. Even if that is just hanging up my coat and logging in. A 9am meeting for a job with a 9am start would require people to get in earlier than 9am to be adequately prepared for a meeting.

Just seen the client has set the meeting.

Can this team member not dial in from the car or on her phone while walking? 9am she should be on her way back from the school run surely?

Also we record all staff meetings for anyone who cant make it. It is great for those who need to know what is happening, but haven't got anything to contribute. It is much more efficient. You can have it on the background while you are working and just listen in properly at key points. But where I now work we waste less time on meetings than any other place I have worked. I am so glad not to be working somewhere now where you have to sit in at meetings for the sake of it.

I can't believe the number of people on this thread who think a 9am meeting is unreasonable!

I work with international colleagues so am more than happy to meet pre-9 or later in the day if it requires it. I expect flexibility from those I work with in return and have a very balanced work/life.

@Schoolpickup

Saying that I'm in a massive cross department meeting right now (around 200). The big cheese, male, senior leader joined at 915 because he was dropping his kids off at school. Kept an eye on numbers, 80 online at 9 now 110 at 915.

Guess what? We record the meeting and crack on.

The pre covid argument is ridiculous. Covid has been a game changer and massive wake up call for many companies. If you want talent, don't treat them like robots.

I feel very sorry for your colleague OP. She deserves better.

200 people in a meeting?! That's more than a month's worth of working hours if it's an hour long and most of them won't speak or contribute, and could probably have caught up on minutes sent round. Is it really only me that looks at meetings in this way?

But thank you OP, this thread has made me feel acutely grateful for escaping 9-5 life and its attendant pettiness and inflexibility.

@SaltySheepdog

She’s a mother first and foremost. She has parental responsibilities despite seniority and role modelling good work life balance is important. Would it really kill you to set a 9.15 or 9.30 meeting next time?

Oh the arrogance! So the entire company has to operate around parental responsibilities?

There’s nothing wrong with 9am meetings in theory. But every single project manager in the world wants to have a 9am catch-up “while everyone is nice and fresh”. At one point this year I had four daily meetings before 9:30, where I was providing the same update to all four. Total waste of time.

@Schoolpickup but your company does sound better than most with recording and flexible joining times for it!

@roses2 it's not that simple though. When I worked in the office in London no one was expected to be there at 9. Unless I wanted to call up the mayor of London and ask him why I can never be at work on time because of tubes and train delays! I think the other way round, people in U.K. have longer working hours than most in Europe, generally less rights and less pay. Any slack in a business is basically what props people up from not having more serious issues at home.

Running a company like a dictatorship without consideration for your staff is exactly why people are unhappy, have mh issues etc because the only way a company can get away with this is if they know full well their staff can't get a job elsewhere. In my role I call a company out and say no I will not be letting a client dictate when I start if it's outside my usual time, if I don't do that who will?!

I can and I do. It's not arrogance imo it's being assertive and telling my company that if they do insist, I will leave so it's their call. They can still insist on the meeting at 9am. And I would just move to a more reasonable company.

@Boood

There’s nothing wrong with 9am meetings in theory. But every single project manager in the world wants to have a 9am catch-up “while everyone is nice and fresh”. At one point this year I had four daily meetings before 9:30, where I was providing the same update to all four. Total waste of time.

And some people are not at their best till later in the day, which is rarely acknowledged. Even alternating between morning and afternoon for regular meetings would be nice!

"So the entire company has to operate around parental responsibilities?"

Usually an "entire company" doesn't need to call into the same meeting, so no.

But if you have a member of staff who absolutely has to attend a certain meeting it's probably sensible to be a tiny bit flexible to that person's personal responsibilities, do you not think?

[quote sausageflowers]@roses2 it's not that simple though. When I worked in the office in London no one was expected to be there at 9. Unless I wanted to call up the mayor of London and ask him why I can never be at work on time because of tubes and train delays! I think the other way round, people in U.K. have longer working hours than most in Europe, generally less rights and less pay. Any slack in a business is basically what props people up from not having more serious issues at home.

Running a company like a dictatorship without consideration for your staff is exactly why people are unhappy, have mh issues etc because the only way a company can get away with this is if they know full well their staff can't get a job elsewhere. In my role I call a company out and say no I will not be letting a client dictate when I start if it's outside my usual time, if I don't do that who will?!

I can and I do. It's not arrogance imo it's being assertive and telling my company that if they do insist, I will leave so it's their call. They can still insist on the meeting at 9am. And I would just move to a more reasonable company.[/quote]
I agree with this totally. And companies with petty rules are always shit to work for.

And this is why it will be harder and harder to recruit teachers going forwards

@larkle yes it will be harder to recruit teachers, but not for this reason. There are plenty of jobs with a fixed start time and no flexibility. The issue is petty rules for the sake of it.

[quote julieca]@larkle yes it will be harder to recruit teachers, but not for this reason. There are plenty of jobs with a fixed start time and no flexibility. The issue is petty rules for the sake of it.[/quote]
But it's not for the sake of it, it's one day a week for an international meeting with a client. If OP was saying why aren't people sat at their desks just to ensure bums on seats at 9am just because.

@Osrie

Am shocked at yabu comments.

Me too.

I bet there is a big crossover with the people saying that the OP is unreasonable to expect 9am meetings and the people who claim to be SO much more productive working at home.

I'm self-employed. If a client wants at meeting at 9am on a MOnday, 4pm on a Friday or any other time and I say no, I don't get the business and I don't get paid.