AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

@Pottedpalm

In my industry very common to do school drop off before starting. I’d say 75% of (male and female, before anyone veers off on gender role lines) parents in my office do and start at 9.30. At all levels of seniority.

Also wraparound care provision has been shit since covid and caused huge issues for parents.

@audweb

Why so fixed on nine? I wfh, in a professional organisation where people who don’t have kids sometimes don’t start till ten am, and then just work later. We have no core hours, people are able to complete the work required and it’s ok for people to say I can’t make 9am let’s move it to half nine or ten. It’s no big deal. We’re all grown ups. And weirdly, by trusting us, especially during this pandemic, we’re all quite loyal to the organisation.

Urm. Most people at work do more than one meeting per day. Do you want the meeting to start at 9:30 then make the whole team stay till 17:30 as everything else is then pushed back 30 mins because one person doesn't like it?

Ultimately piss the client off and they leave and the company looses income. No clients, no income, no jobs.

I do drop off now I WFH, every parent I know does, I logged on 20 mins ago, school run takes15-20 mins. I have agreed with my line manager and it’s not massively disruptive. I am usually back online at 9:05.

I have always hated 9am meetings, even when in the office, and it’s never been the etiquette to book a meeting the minute the working day starts.

I do my daily project stand ups between 9 and 10:30 (got to wait for the devs to wake up!)

9:15 that should say

Our core hours are 0830 to 1630, but the earliest I arrange anything is about 0930. Just gives everyone a chance to warm up, get into work mode etc

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

I'm sorry to say but this is true.
My DH's company often put in meetings at 8.30 or 8.45 which isn't great online but a nightmare when he's expected onsite. They're clearly organised by people who either don't have young children or have someone at home doing it all.

Flexible working and family friendly policies really do make a difference.

10-4 are standard ‘core’ hours for booking meetings which allows for delays in travel, school runs, prioritised project meetings etc.

Likely your client follows the same model as it is reliable & workable.
However some project methodologies have daily stand-ups at say 09:00 or even earlier.

If your valued client insists on 09:00 meeting, then so be it. This requirement is a natural selection criteria for the project team. For those with school run commitments, they may need to dial in to make the meeting.

However, if the 09:00 meeting is your preference alone, then reconsider as this is not a hill to die on.

We start our meetings at 10am so that no one has any worries about school run commitments. If I arranged a call for 9am there would be no one there!!!

Business doesn't (and shouldn't) be fun the way it was 20 years ago. With many working parents both parties have to go to work, so work needs to be flexible about reasonable childcare commitments.

Run, not fun!

Why would you assume that when you've absolutely no idea? It's clear that 9am meetings are fine in some workplaces, not in others and in this particular office there's been no mention of staff ever having been required to even start by that time.

It doesn't sound like they have flexi time with core hours as OP said people have arrangements which wouldn't be necessary. As 9am is/was a standard time to start I would be surprised if people were coming in later after doing the school run, yes.

@Pottedpalm

How did this all work pre-Covid? Was everyone taking children to school then going to the office? I’m bemused by so many people thinking work revolves around school hours, especially when they are so short for the young pupils.

The only wraparound care available to us changed their hours during covid and haven't reverted back. If my organisation didn't have a flexible, family friendly working culture one of us would have give up work.

How did this all work pre-Covid? Was everyone taking children to school then going to the office? I’m bemused by so many people thinking work revolves around school hours, especially when they are so short for the young pupils.

I started work at 9.30, when I accepted the job I did so on the understanding I was doing school drop off. I made it clear if they wanted me they needed to accept I had other responsibilities. Now I WFH I'm at my desk by 9. I don't know why people are so hateful of working parents paving the way for more flexible working. Meetings do not HAVE to happen at 9, schools start at 9 so why not encourage workplaces (that can) to fit around this better, many households have 2 working parents, why shouldnt the work place adapt to make it easier for parents? It's better for them, for the kids and ultimately for the employer if everyone is happier with what they're managing. It's extremely backward to be so hellbent on "the old ways". It's 2021, we can manage work and family better now, no need for out of date perceptions "just because".

@MiddleParking

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

Yep this

@Fetarabbit

Why would you assume that when you've absolutely no idea? It's clear that 9am meetings are fine in some workplaces, not in others and in this particular office there's been no mention of staff ever having been required to even start by that time.

It doesn't sound like they have flexi time with core hours as OP said people have arrangements which wouldn't be necessary. As 9am is/was a standard time to start I would be surprised if people were coming in later after doing the school run, yes.

Not what you said, though. Even if we assume everyone was expected in at 9am, there's still the issue of whether people would've been fine with a meeting then. Two separate issues.

YANBU I have to be in 8.15 and go straight into staff briefing & lessons start at 8.35.

If the meeting doesn't start til 9.30 then it's mid morning before it's over.

Do people expect to nip out 3-3.30 to pick up as well?

I assume if people had to be in the office they would just start at 9?

@MiddleParking

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

This.

Not what you said, though. Even if we assume everyone was expected in at 9am, there's still the issue of whether people would've been fine with a meeting then. Two separate issues.

Seems just like another example of wfh making stuff slide to be honest. I'm sure the client can find a team who can be arsed to have a meeting at a perfectly reasonable time of 9am.

Do people expect to nip out 3-3.30 to pick up as well?

Yes we do

@sausageflowers

Depends. I've told my bosses before I won't be making a 9am meeting and they've just moved it to 9:30 and the client had to deal with it. I wouldn't want to work for a company that insists on me being at a meeting at 9am though because of having dc and getting them to school etc. Even different time zones can usually cope with 15/30min change.

Well there will be be many companies who don’t want you working for them, with that attitude.

I worked on a team with an 07:00 daily stand up call to accommodate working at pace & multiple time zones on a project.

This is a stretch for many & the expectation was that everyone dialed in (video not required) & the meeting was brisk & purposeful.

If the client wants 09:00 once a week & cannot be moved to a slightly later time, then so be it. Are they a small company or solo practitioner?
Maybe they do not have need of flexible start times so they are not aware of current flexi practices? By the same token in my pp, is a 09:00 start something they really want at the risk of incomplete team presence or is it their default request?

Why can’t they do what everyone else who had to start work at a normal time has to do? Childminder, family member, neighbour..
I’m quite staggered by this idea that the client can go hang. Is this really how it is? I’m quite certain that if at any stage in their career my many friends who work in various areas of business had declared themselves unavailable due to the school run, they would have found themselves superfluous to requirements

Why is is in any way better to inconvenience friends & family, than start a meeting 15 minutes later?
Your many friends in various areas if business (you don't work?) have strange priorities.

when I accepted the job I did so on the understanding I was doing school drop off. I made it clear if they wanted me they needed to accept I had other responsibilities.
Amen to this and all of @userg5647’s post. I’ve just accepted a permanent role after a contract post at the same company – it’s WFH and impossible to do that once DD is home from nursery even with partner looking after her. I’ve made clear that I have a hard stop finish and won’t be picking up work after she goes to bed. But also that my flexible needs will change as she does – nursery hours being different to school hours. No one batted an eye, they hired me for my work abilities, not my “butt on chair at arbitrary time” abilities.

Does this person really need to be in the meeting? 90% of meetings should be emails anyway.

@Fetarabbit

Not what you said, though. Even if we assume everyone was expected in at 9am, there's still the issue of whether people would've been fine with a meeting then. Two separate issues.

Seems just like another example of wfh making stuff slide to be honest. I'm sure the client can find a team who can be arsed to have a meeting at a perfectly reasonable time of 9am.

Either way, you've still no basis at all for assuming there were 9am office meetings attended in person by people no problem pre wfh era.

9am is a pretty standard time for a meeting. We work different timezones and usually have meetings between 9am - 5pm, with occasional early such as 7am or later until 7pm.

This is another case of poor communication of availability expectations, and what is allowed flexibility wise when allowing WFH. It should be written in contracts that while working hours can be flexible they are expected to be available between x and y if there are meetings, if they will be expected to be in office when needed for meetings etc. Then everyone knows where they stand and can make appropriate childcare arrangements.

When you have people working across several time zones, the timing of meeting is always different to make work.
Usually our clients set the time which works best for them and we have to attend in person or online. A 9am meeting for employees in the U.K. is not unusual.