To not realise people can steal houses?

[radiatorsz]

Read this story

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-59069662.amp

wtf!!!

How can this happen and how is it a civil matter? How can you stop this happening?

Ok so the original homeowner gets compensation... but that doesn’t compensate him for all his personal property and sentimental items that the scammer has binned when they cleared the house. It also ignores the fact that people have sentimental attachment to houses. I know my parents would be devastated to lose our family home, and so would I because I grew up there and intend to move back there with my DC if/when I inherit it.

@Boomquiffa thanks for the link. I’ve added a few properties to the list, mine and my immediate family who don’t use the internet.

This happened to a family friend of ours with a house worth over 2 million. Except they were the ones who bought the house that had been stolen by someone fraudulently pretending to be the owner. The court case took years and they’ve only just been reimbursed their money.

I've signed up for the alert but not totally sure what you'd then do if there was strange activity?

No, it's not especially obvious to know the next step, really, is it?

Plus, what kind of searches and activity flag up, I wonder - is it just if somebody does a search for your deeds and/or to find out the owner? That could just be somebody hoping to (legally) buy your house from you (or maybe part of your land), if you're in a position to consider it, and wanting to find whom to contact to approach.

Also, what about if you live in a house of great historical importance or particular local interest, and lots of history buffs or genealogists are looking for what is, after all, a public document - just for innocent research purposes? Would it alert you every time this happened?

Ultimately the sale money was paid into a bank account (probably the one the fraudsters set up as soon as they got the faked real I'd), but that money has to be transferred out so that it can ultimately be used, which is where you think the whole thing would come unstuck. Unfortunately the whole banking system is still pathetically useless at actually following where money goes so scammers still get away with their money.
Having had experience of previous owners not updating contact addresses with banks they owe money to (and paying so little towards what they owe that they will never pay it off) it is next to impossible to get a bank to understand that their customer no longer lives here - and oh no they don't have a process for dealing with that, it is no wonder banks don't have a handle on where money goes.

I've too recently sold a house - for the I'd check the solicitors wanted me to send them a photo of me holding my ID next to my face
I'd kind of hope for these sort of ID checks they'd have access to the DVLA/passport office electronic copy of the photos to catch out this very thing of a doctored real driving license

Unfortunately the whole banking system is still pathetically useless at actually following where money goes so scammers still get away with their money.

Mad, isn't it? The banks will successfully pick up on and grill you if you have a weekly takeaway habit and are applying for a remortgage that will cost you less than the existing one you've constantly paid on time for years, but something like this can happen - with so many stages of checks somehow passed - and the crooks get clean away with it.

That large amount of money passed through the system electronically, so how can they possibly not know where it went? It's not even like you could launder it across in lots of small, unremarkable amounts, as it's the single lump sum conveyed across as payment for a property.

I can only assume that this bank doesn't actually understand what identity theft is - and as the fraudster has ticked their boxes to 'prove' who he supposedly is, as far as they're concerned, he IS Rev Hall, all sorted, case closed. I'd be very interested to see if they'd wash their hands of the matter so quickly if it had been their CEO who was the victim....

It think the one most at fault here is the solicitors handling the sale.
They failed to spot a doctored ID photo, that the DOB on the ID didn't match the perceived age of the person in front of them, that the ethnicity of the person didn't fit well with the extremely Anglo Saxon name. Coupled with a significantly below market value sale, without an estate agent involved and not between family.
There couldn't have been more red flags could there?

I think the Land Registry alert is particularly useful if it picks up a priority search. This is a search that you carry out when you're conveyancing which effectively stops other entries going onto the title (bit more complicated than that in reality). It effectively gives the purchaser priority to have their transaction registered. If you got noticed of such an entry being made on your title, and you weren't aware of any transaction taking place, that would give you notice to contact the solicitors who have lodged the application together with the land registry and the police that a potentially fraudulent activity was taking place. That's the most useful thing I can think of.

For those above who have mentioned putting a a restriction on the title which means that you would have to effectively consent to the transaction and provide some ID, it's a good idea though I've never heard of it before. The land registry are quite keen to ensure people can can put make applications themselves without having to use a conveyancer and will be helpful if you ask. I did the removal of a restriction last year and it was straightforward or though took nearly a year to be completed because of the backlog.

The property would not I suspect been offered through an estate agent

I would also suspect that the vendor would not have instructed a solicitor and would have acted for themselves

I would imagine a great deal of pressure was required to get the deal done quickly. The Revd was using the property

I would be surprised if the purchaser obtained a mortgage - takes too long and the property needs to be sold very quickly

I suspect the price of the property was very much below market value

Would love to hear from the purchasers as to what happened

@tryinghardnottocry

They did use a solicitor. That’s the point of this thread. The house was also sold well below market value.

I'll bet, if there were care home costs potentially involved (or even if the owner was simply above a certain age), questions would be asked if a house was sold at less than 50% of the expected market value for the area and type of house

Probably with a house. But not with a retirement flat (though maybe they don't get sold fraudulently because they are a mare to get rid of again). But when my father went into a care home I would have sold his flat significantly undervalue to get rid of it and get the cash for the fees. Not 50% but it was valued at £120 and I would have sold it for £100K. However, he died fairly quickly so in the end I got a bit more.

@user1471447863

It think the one most at fault here is the solicitors handling the sale. They failed to spot a doctored ID photo, that the DOB on the ID didn't match the perceived age of the person in front of them, that the ethnicity of the person didn't fit well with the extremely Anglo Saxon name. Coupled with a significantly below market value sale, without an estate agent involved and not between family. There couldn't have been more red flags could there?

But the ID in this case wasn’t doctored - it was genuine (or rather had been procured unlawfully from the DVLA).

The DOB could have been similar to the client and if the only difference is ethnicity based on a name, that would be relatively difficult to question!

But I agree that the sale price should have been picked up.

Interestingly enough, at our firm our staff are all trained on spotting false ID. We also have a second check system where client details are added and checked for authenticity… but this checks things like whether they are on the electoral roll or a politically exposed person… only if the person came back as being virtually non existent would this trigger further checks. And if the name matches the address, which matches the electoral roll (as it would in this case) it just wouldn’t get flagged up.

It’s down to human error somewhere - conveyancers are incredibly busy so very easy to fool them as they don’t have time to do such thorough checks!

One article I read said the Land Registry pay out hundreds of thousands of pounds a year compensation due to fraudulant activity, so this isn't as rare as you'd like to think

Dear OP, thank you so much for posting this. Heard this awful story on the radio. That poor man, and how little help he’s getting from authorities. Just shocking. I’ve now set up the land registry alert, thanks to you. Still can’t believe that your house and possessions can be stolen from you, and police just go....meh.

The article explains how it happened, OP.

Not exactly. There are an awful lot of steps that must have been missed for it to have been as easy as it seems to have been.

I listened to this on Radio 2 yesterday, Jeremy Vine. 2 other people rang in with similar stories, truly shocking.

This is organised fraud. Fraudsters look for properties that seem unoccupied so be warned if you have a second home. Also beware if you own the house outright as the building societies also conduct their own searches/ID checks when awarding the mortgage to new owners.

@mirandasma

This is organised fraud. Fraudsters look for properties that seem unoccupied so be warned if you have a second home. Also beware if you own the house outright as the building societies also conduct their own searches/ID checks when awarding the mortgage to new owners.

Exactly. Unencumbererd properties are a big target.

You are more at risk if mortgage free. There was a scary case a few years ago of a man who lived alone and had an outside postbox of his own at the end of his drive. Thieves stole enough post to be able to steal his identity and put his house up for auction. Fortunately his daughter spotted it in time.

Here’s an example
www.unbiased.co.uk/news/mortgages/fraudster-steals-house

The DOB could have been similar to the client and if the only difference is ethnicity based on a name, that would be relatively difficult to question!

That's true, actually - and names are so varied and not necessarily corresponding to ethnic origin nowadays, it would be discriminatory and extremely unwise to question on that basis. It would only make sense if you knew for a fact that the person in question was an older white man and then a young black man claimed to be that actual person.

Without wanting to get into any derailing, you couldn't even use sex as a clear marker of something being awry, as plenty of people with no criminal intent at all nowadays identify with the sex that you might very well not attach to them on first sight or by hearing their voice.

Mortgage fraud and this type of fraud isn't common but it's not unheard of, sadly.
That poor guy and the new owner telling him he's trespassing is very wrong. Caveat emptor applies to property purchases ie, the purchasers are likely to find themselves out of pocket if this is a fraud and no-one can find the fraudsters. They then sue their solicitors to try to recoup their money, but the house will belong to the original owner unless he wants to take a payment for it, if I understand this area of law correctly. Could take years to unravel, horrible stressful process no doubt.
Some people do not care how much they F up someone else's life. I sincerely hope karma gets them good and proper...

nestoftables

The land registry thing doesn't seem to work for Scotland...

The property alert is not really needed in Scotland the Laws are very different and property fraud in Scotland is very rare, it's actually a criminal offence for a solicitor to submit a fraudulent case for registration so solicitors ID checks are very robust.

[quote Lemonsyellow]@tryinghardnottocry

They did use a solicitor. That’s the point of this thread. The house was also sold well below market value.[/quote]
The purchaser did, but we don't know if the vendor represented themselves - I suspect they did not and would have been required to complete an ID1 form to send to the purchasers solicitor

@rslsys

You can set up an alert with the Land Registry which will email you when anyone conducts a search on your property. It also sends you a six monthly summary of any searches.

Thanks, just set up for mine also