Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not realise people can steal houses?

163 replies

radiatorsz · 02/11/2021 07:39

Read this story

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-59069662.amp

wtf!!!

How can this happen and how is it a civil matter? How can you stop this happening?

OP posts:
kirinm · 02/11/2021 09:53

I had no idea this could happen but also have no doubt that a conveyancing solicitor could do such a shoddy job. Surprised about a bank though. It is a lot of money to advance to have in an account without any proper checks.

My stupid solicitor managed to register my mortgage at both my new address and the address of the property I had been renting previously. If the owner of the property had come to sell, I suspect he'd have had major issues sorting. My broker actually picked it up when we came to re-mortgage 2 years later!

DGRossetti · 02/11/2021 09:56

Surprised about a bank though. It is a lot of money to advance to have in an account without any proper checks.

www.reuters.com/world/uk/welcome-britain-bank-scam-capital-world-2021-10-14/

kirinm · 02/11/2021 10:00

[quote DGRossetti]Surprised about a bank though. It is a lot of money to advance to have in an account without any proper checks.

www.reuters.com/world/uk/welcome-britain-bank-scam-capital-world-2021-10-14/[/quote]
God! That poor woman. £200k.

Lemonsyellow · 02/11/2021 10:01

The bank account had been open for a while, with sums of money entering and leaving it, I guess to make it look more real.

Blankscreen · 02/11/2021 10:10

The houses t risk of this are generally mortgage free and unoccupied

If you have a mortgage it is v v unlikely you will be targeted as a big chunk of money would have to be paid off

There are ID requirements at the Land Registry and solicitors have to giver certain certifications.

The solicitors involved have to have I insurance so they will pick up the bill there was a big case a few years back and ultimately it wasn't the lawyers fault but due to insurance it fell to them (Mischon de Reya).

As a lawyer how are you meant to tell a sophisticated fake passport or driving licence from a genuine once?

As long as the lawyer can show they have asked all the right questions it is fraud and everyone has been duped

Duchess379 · 02/11/2021 10:14

@Bagamoyo1

I heard about this case - it’s awful! But my thinking was that the solicitors were at fault, for not doing the required checks on the seller, who had stolen the real owner’s identity. I’m sure I recall having to produce various forms of ID in the house buying/selling process, and I’m guessing that whatever ID was used in this case, was not thoroughly checked by the solicitors.

Exactly this!

sausageflowers · 02/11/2021 10:15

@JohnRokesmith I do hope so but from what I've read the owner will not be getting their property back. I sold my empty house last year and I can't believe this sort of thing goes on.

I did fully alarm it and have cameras inside but it's good it's highlighted the land registry alert system as I'd not heard of that before.

Bluntness100 · 02/11/2021 10:16

Remember we don’t know the full story and it could be the owner is actually the one who commuted the fraud,or more to the story that is known to the public.

kirinm · 02/11/2021 10:16

@Blankscreen

The houses t risk of this are generally mortgage free and unoccupied

If you have a mortgage it is v v unlikely you will be targeted as a big chunk of money would have to be paid off

There are ID requirements at the Land Registry and solicitors have to giver certain certifications.

The solicitors involved have to have I insurance so they will pick up the bill there was a big case a few years back and ultimately it wasn't the lawyers fault but due to insurance it fell to them (Mischon de Reya).

As a lawyer how are you meant to tell a sophisticated fake passport or driving licence from a genuine once?

As long as the lawyer can show they have asked all the right questions it is fraud and everyone has been duped

Money laundering checks go beyond checking ID though. The price of the house, dealing with no mortgage etc. These are all issues that solicitors should be considering and consider reporting.
Heckythump1 · 02/11/2021 10:18

It was an amazingly well orchestrated crime... how did they know the owner was going to be away for a week in order to 'complete' the sale?!

I feel so sorry for the poor bloke, can't imagine coming home from a week away to no house and no posessions, where do you even begin with that!

OhMyfanwy · 02/11/2021 10:23

thank you @LakieLady , all registered now ,and my parents too

bothjetplanes · 02/11/2021 10:27

@Korbah

the way it works is once their name is on land registry they are guaranteed to get to keep the property This is the part I find unbelievable. The house has been stolen and the person who received the stolen goods is apparently allowed to keep it! It’s insane and the government needs to look at this state of affairs because it’s worrying. Stolen goods should always be returned to the original owner!
Apparently its true. It was featured on You and Yours on Radio 4. Its an increasing crime. Land Registry has massively increased what they need to pay out in compensation. Rented and empty properties are most at risk,. You need to make sure that rented or empty properties are registered at the owner's address.
Blankscreen · 02/11/2021 10:29

That's why I said asking all the right questions!

Leftbutcameback · 02/11/2021 10:35

The whole thing is so so sad, especially having all his stuff thrown away. Presumably the thief just got a house clearance company in to do that. Awful.

storkstalk · 02/11/2021 10:41

Does the alert service tell you if someone does one of those £3 title register searches? And if it does, does it tell you who the person is?

nestoftables · 02/11/2021 10:43

The land registry thing doesn't seem to work for Scotland...

Cattenberg · 02/11/2021 10:48

Yes, I hope he didn’t lose anything irreplaceable, such as family letters and photos.

I understand that the property was vacant as the vicar who owned it was working in Wales. Vicars tend to get moved to a new parish every few years and they’re not allowed to retire in the parish they last served (not sure about the previous parishes). So, if a vicar does own a property, it can be a long way from where they work.

I’m surprised the low sale price of the property didn’t ring alarm bells - unless one of the professionals involved was somehow in on the whole scam.

JohnRokesmith · 02/11/2021 10:56

@nestoftables

The land registry thing doesn't seem to work for Scotland...
Scotland being a different country to England, has a different registrar (Registers of Scotland). You will have to see what services they offer for protection of property.
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/11/2021 11:05

Yet if someone sells a car they are still paying for, the new owner gets it seized back, don't they? How very odd.

My exact thought, too. It's tough for the unsuspecting buyer (assuming they aren't in on it), but surely it's very basic law (and common sense) that you cannot become the owner of something by buying it from somebody who doesn't own it or have any right to sell it to you.

We're currently involved in a house sale and the conveyancing 'journey' is long and drawn out - as I expected - for precisely the reason that lots of checks have to be made to ensure that everybody involved is above board and legally allowed to buy/sell the property.

There are various stages that are so involved that the legitimate person can easily get paranoid and hope that they don't somehow mistakenly 'fail' the checks - like on gameshows, where you can tell that the contestant is 100% certain of quite an obvious answer, but is nevertheless still crossing their fingers and biting their lip.

There was a very good Mitchell & Webb sketch relating to this principle, where a man's bank was trying to tell him that he'd lost his money because he was a victim of 'identity theft'. He countered that his identity hadn't been stolen, because, erm, he still had it. He tenaciously managed to get the bank to admit that they had given away their money to somebody, who had apparently defrauded them by citing this man's name; but that, as he hadn't had any involvement in it, his own money was, of course, still safely in their care, as it had been all along.

Definitely something fishy about paying half the market value of the house, unless it was a crumbling ruin.

sausageflowers · 02/11/2021 11:09

@Bluntness100 they could be, but given they're a reverend and they drove down in the middle of the night after a neighbour spotted the lights on in the property it doesn't sound likely!

godmum56 · 02/11/2021 11:33

@Bluntness100

Remember we don’t know the full story and it could be the owner is actually the one who commuted the fraud,or more to the story that is known to the public.
It happened to Penny hastings too, see my link.
godmum56 · 02/11/2021 11:35

@DGRossetti

In some ways, I'm surprised this hasn't happened in the past

What makes you think it didn't ?

it has, see my link further up the thread
amillionrosepetals · 02/11/2021 12:20

@Korbah

I honestly think that the buyer was involved in the process There’s definitely something very dodgy. Who pays £131k for a house worth about £265k, not auctioned or advertised on Rightmove, rushed through and completed quickly, and doesn’t realise something isn’t right?
My thoughts too. From a picture I've seen of the property it looked like a pavement mid-terrace. I find it difficult to believe that the fraudster changed the locks without the neighbours noticing (neighbours who rang the real owner when they saw the new owner in the property). I find it even more difficult to believe that the fraudster conducted viewings without the neighbours noticing - a property at that kind of bargain price would have had people queuing round the block to view it. And if you are aware of the fact that you still get to keep the property while the real owner gets paid compensation - well you might be tempted.
Cattenberg · 02/11/2021 12:49

I find it even more difficult to believe that the fraudster conducted viewings without the neighbours noticing - a property at that kind of bargain price would have had people queuing round the block to view it.

Maybe it wasn’t advertised and no estate agent was involved. We don’t even know that the buyer viewed it.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/11/2021 12:50

And if you are aware of the fact that you still get to keep the property while the real owner gets paid compensation - well you might be tempted.

It really shouldn't be allowed to be that simple, especially in this case: the buyer needs to be interviewed by the police and forced to explain why they thought the house price was in any way not highly suspicious.

Maybe if you're selling to family or a very close friend, you might give them a hefty discount (although, ironically, the authorities will still ask questions and query suspected stamp duty/other tax avoidance with a significantly below-market value price); but if actually buying from a stranger/mild acquaintance?

If nothing else, I'd be very wary that, even if the seller is the rightful owner, the buyer might be taking huge advantage of somebody with dementia or learning difficulties - or even threatening/gaslighting them - especially as the house never made it to being advertised on the open market.