To think that executing drug smugglers is not necessary

[Krystalcastles]

They deserve prison time, absolutely, but I think execution over it is a step too far.
I’ve been reading about the grandmother Lindsay Sandiford who has been sentenced to the death penalty despite others involved being released already. She has no set execution date but has lost several appeals.
Indonesia sent two young Australian males to the firing squad after keeping them on death row for 10 years. Why keep somebody on death row for so long if you’re just going to execute them.

I do not think they deserved to be executed, even if they did deserve prison time.

@wallowmall

I do find the death penalty tricky, if someone killed my child would I want them to get 20 years or less & then get out? nope

That is why the victims are not involved in the justice process.

Justice is not the same as vengeance.

@WhoWants2Know

Is it effective as a deterrent?

It would certainly deter me if I were inclined to smuggle drugs into a country that executed convicted drug smugglers.

I used to live in Saudi Arabia which, at the time, made it clear that drug smugglers would get the death penalty. Whenever I entered the country, I always worried that somehow, some way, someone had planted drugs in my luggage. This worry was not assuaged when I expressed this to a family friend who said "Your family would believe you, Alfonso, and I would believe you but no one else would".

If you smuggle drugs into a country with the death penalty then you deserve all that you get.
I do think it is necessary to have competent policing, legal and judicial systems though to reliably differentiate between a smuggler and someone who has had something planted (though i think truly random planting must be incredibly rare & unreliable)
I get that officially it isn't an effective deterrent (though i'm sure it must be to an extent) but it would be difficult to argue that it doesn't cut down on reoffending.

Planting drugs does happen. A person who doesn’t know they’re carrying drugs is is less nervous and conspicuous. However, it’s so common for drug mules to claim that they’ve been set up that it’s really hard for anyone in this situation to prove their innocence.

I’ve also heard of drug mules being used as decoys who are intended to be caught, so that a larger package has a good chance of passing through undetected. That really is evil.

I know that the two executed members of the Bali Nine were apparently the ring-leaders, but most of the people who are caught smuggling drugs aren’t.

@wallowmall

I do find the death penalty tricky, if someone killed my child would I want them to get 20 years or less & then get out? nope

Reverse thought experiment: what if your child was convicted of murder?

It doesn't really matter what you or I think. We don't get to dictate law in other countries and they aren't beholden to attitudes prevalent in the West. They have their own laws and so can do as they see fit. Breaking laws in a foreign country is beyond dangerous, british holidaymakers shouldn't assume the embassy will save them it simply isn't as easy as that! I have very little sympathy for drug dealers.

@WhoWants2Know

Is it effective as a deterrent?

She probably won't do it again.

@GinIronic

If you commit an offence in a country where the punishment is death - it shouldn't come as a surprise when you are found guilty that you will face execution. No sympathy.

This. I disagree with the death penalty but that’s the law there so… there you go. You don’t get special treatment for being white or British which is clearly the expectation when this happens.

I disagree with death penalty full stop.

As for countries must be able to make own laws and that's that.

Don't agree with that either. I mean not to invade them or something! But to press for change.

Laws around world include death penalty for things like gay sex, blasphemy and more. In some countries (including popular holiday destinations) women can be jailed if they report rape, because adultery is illegal. (Men raped too I imagine worse as would be gay sex v illegal in some countries).

Afghanistan under taleban before carried out public executions. Do their laws count? If governing country I think yes.

In USA some states marrying underage girl to grown man who has been abusing her and she's Pg is a loophole for the obvious underage sexual abuse.

So no I'm not on board with that.

When Dutch woman was charged with sex outside marriage in Qatar when she reported rape, and she went to prison.

I checked British FO advice for travellers no mention of women if raped don't report. I'll check if it says now.

Having lived in a neighbour that was devastated in every possible way by heroin, I have zero sympathy for drug smugglers and, yes, sometimes people are tricked or just plain desperate, but the majority are just totally indifferent to the effects of their trade.

Neigbhourhood, duh

Just wondering cos of phrasing if in USA or UK?

Only for context! Different contexts etc.

What are people describing as drug smugglers? Taking overseas? Over a certain amount?

And why go after those who do the smuggling at v high risk and certainly often need money, rather than those controlling the operation?

Or the higher level distributers at home?

There will always be people who will do it for whatever reason (greed, coercion, desperation etc) and so if you kill the ones you catch then someone else steps in.

I'm not sure what it achieves tbh.

In England it's often kids doing the running. I don't think killing them is a good idea.

I am totally against the death penalty but if you knowingly commit a crime in a country that carries it you don’t commit it.

Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukaraman were executed on 28th April 2015.

They had both done their best in prison to reform - Chan a pastor and Myu an artist. Their crime was to smuggle drugs OUT of Indonesia.

Yes they were criminals, yes they were incredibly stupid, yes they should have served very long custodial sentences. They died despite intense diplomacy in terrible circumstances.

The death penalty is abhorrent and has no place in a decent society. I followed this story and was heartbroken for the families. To be shot in a field in the middle of the night....

@Pixxie7

I am totally against the death penalty but if you knowingly commit a crime in a country that carries it you don’t commit it.

Including being raped?

(Sex outside marriage/ adultery. A few countries eg Qatar where a Dutch woman went to prison for reporting rape. And what about work travel? And where do you look to find out all this? British FO advice just checked not useful on this).

In USA some states marrying underage girl to grown man who has been abusing her and she's Pg is a loophole for the obvious underage sexual abuse.

Which states are those?

It's been in the news over the years a lot and wiki has a lot. Few years back a governer or whatever some politician blocked a thing to ban as would interfere with religious practices.

Are you in USA? The stats are grim. It's all there on Google.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/child-marriage-us-states-america-minimum-age-bride-girls-a9467121.html has a good article on the US child marriage.

And here is an absolutely horrific story (content warning): endchildmarriageus.org/survivor-stories/

[quote NoDecentHandlesLeft]www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/child-marriage-us-states-america-minimum-age-bride-girls-a9467121.html has a good article on the US child marriage.

And here is an absolutely horrific story (content warning): endchildmarriageus.org/survivor-stories/[/quote]
This is a different topic altogether, which is about the death penalty for drug smugglers.

Please don't derail the discussion.

When someone mentioned that countries have the right to impose their own sentences, it is a very valid point however when I think of those countries that impose the death penalty for adultery, being raped, being homosexual, I find that abhorrent and difficult to therefore agree with the first statement

The ones that get off or are released 100% paid off the police/authorities.

Indonesian Police are TOTALLY corrupt and you can get out of most things if you pay the right amount. I know as I'm Indonesian and have been there many times.
Have witnessed with my own eyes people I know paying off police when they've been caught with drugs. The police accept the money (has to be a decent amount, couldn't just offer a tenner like!) and let them go.

Shocked me the first time but its very normal over there. Sad but true.

Agree with PP's though that it's HEAVILY advertised that they have the death penalty for drug trafficking so surely you can't be surprised when you get caught and get the death penalty.

That’s very sad. I suspect that’s what happened with Sandiford’s co defendants

Have witnessed with my own eyes people I know paying off police when they've been caught with drugs. The police accept the money (has to be a decent amount, couldn't just offer a tenner like!) and let them go

Ah ok, so in fact the death penalty is a punishment for not paying the bribe.

I've always been against the death penalty because it is so easy for the wrong person to be convicted. I.e.. if England had had the death penalty, the Birmingham Six and Guildford Four would have copped it., but even worse in those countries where the judicial system is corrupt.

It will certainly stop them smuggling any more drugs. And deter others.