To ask if we can stop dicking about with the clocks?

[ThirdElephant]

Just that, really. I'm up at 4:30 for the second day in a row because of this clock nonsense. Changing bedtime is not adjusting wake-up time, just resulting in a tired infant. Can we all just leave the clocks where they are from now on?

Or should that be an hour earlier? I can't get my head round it right now!

For safety reasons GMT makes more sense in winter and little daylight. But then the bright summer nights are nice too but you cannot argue with safety, it has to come first over pleasant evening sports

But having more light in the evenings is better for women walking home on their own, whether from work or anywhere else.

As I said way upthread, most predators aren't out at 7am, but they are probably are out at 7pm. If we put the clocks forward at the end of Feb it would be more or less light at 7. Big difference to womens' safety.

There is probably a higher risk a a child being hit by a car in the pitch black than their is of a woman or child being attacked in any sort of light.

The argument isn't really about 7am vs 7pm the argument is is it better to have dawn between 8&9 dusk 3&4 or dawn between 9&10 with dust 4&5, at that time of the year its dark at 7pm regardless what what you do with the clock.

@ColinTheKoala are you thinking we should revert to BST at end of February rather than March?

February is the coldest month so most likely to have snow and ice on the ground even if the daylight hours are starting to lengthen again.

@Yepnothatfeeling

Platax I live in the central belt in Scotland. As I explained upthread, before the clocks changed last week, my kids were leaving the house at 8am in semi darkness. If the clocks hadn't changed, it's reasonable to assume this would be the state of play until February, walking to school in the dark. When the clocks change, we get lighter mornings and it's not really until early Dec that it's dark at 8 am. My kids leave school at 3.30 and are back at 4pm - in this part of Scotland it doesn't get properly dark until then even in the middle of Dec, so central belt children (the most populous part of Scotland) get more days walking in the light when the clocks change.

Not sure why people find this so hard to grasp or why people down south seem keen to ignore the experiences of Scottish children walking to school and maximising their safety.

This! And if we do have to relate things to England - what about the children in Northumbria, Newcastle, Durham etc who only get sunrise 10-20 minutes earlier than us?

I wish people would stop banging on about those "Scottish farmers" and grow the fuck up and learn how to change their car clock. It's not hard, especially not on modern cars.

I managed to find a setting on my car to set the clock to GPS time. Sorted. I'll not need to do that again!

Just the cooker to fathom out 😝

I'm old enough to remember when they didn't do it in 1968, 1969 and 1970, and I remember walking to school in the dark (north east England). Apparently it didn't get light until nearly 10am in the far north of Scotland. I think an increase in road accidents was a major factor in reintroducing it.

I hate it too. My 7yo little boy was up at 5:30, 5 and 4:30 respectively. Absolutely exhausted. I have long covid too so I'm constantly tired as it is.

Apparently it didn't get light until nearly 10am in the far north of Scotland.

I know by many definitions Aberdeen isn’t in the far north of Scotland but it’ll do to reinforce that point - latest sunrise there this year, which happens around Dec 28th, is at 0848 Local time (UTC or GMT if you prefer).

If the UK had stayed on BST that would be 0948.

It will of course be light a little while before that, especially on a clear day, but OTOH go further west and/or north and sunrise is delayed even more…

@notimagain

Apparently it didn't get light until nearly 10am in the far north of Scotland.

I know by many definitions Aberdeen isn’t in the far north of Scotland but it’ll do to reinforce that point - latest sunrise there this year, which happens around Dec 28th, is at 0848 Local time (UTC or GMT if you prefer).

If the UK had stayed on BST that would be 0948.

It will of course be light a little while before that, especially on a clear day, but OTOH go further west and/or north and sunrise is delayed even more…

But it is obviously far enough for Southerners not to give too hoots for the folks that live there . I do wonder where in the UK is the line that not giving two hoots starts ( N . of Watford ? wherever that is ) . Anyway putting the clocks back an hr does not cause ' suffering' down south as one pp put it .🙄

• two

I really don't understand all the fuss. Changing clocks is such a minor thing. I'm in the North (and have lived in Scotland). I'd far rather have daylight when I leave the house for work and for the school run. It makes sense to change to BST in the Spring to benefit from longer evenings rather than wasted daylight when you're asleep. Now that everyone has smart phones which automatically reset to the new time, there isn't the same confusion if you forget that the clocks have changed (as I did as a student when my boss rang me up crossly on a Sunny morning when I hadn't turned up!). It's a small hassle to change the odd clock in the house and car, but for me it's worth it for all the benefits. My children were fine with the clocks changing when they were small and soon adjusted. Changing the school times twice a year instead seems a silly idea that would be far more inconvenient.

Has anyone posted this yet?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=k4EUTMPuvHo

I leave for work with toddler at 7.45am. It was pitch black here in north west Scotland. Putting it back 1hour means I’m not driving early windy A-roads in darkness which I prefer -lots of deer/sheep at times. Though it does mean I’m driving home in dark at 5.30 but at least there are more cars on the route then making the road more visible and deer les likely. I don’t expect down south to care about stuff like that though. If other regions of the UK really wants to keep the hour, perhaps it could happen if campaigned for. Plenty states in the u.s are on different times and right next to each other. Would be a bit of a pain though

You would understand if you lived in Scotland! Actually it would be more sensible to stay on gmt (winter) if we don't change. I hate dark mornings

@jontyl

Mine took themselves from 9. It was dark for the last 2 weeks of term even with the hour change

[quote Suspiciousmind20]Has anyone posted this yet?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=k4EUTMPuvHo[/quote]
..

Actually I have the answer ….

Deep Midwinter there’s only about 8 hours of useable daylight available in the UK, give or take. There’s nothing you can do about that because as Feynman said “nature cannot be fooled”.

Most objections here seem to centre around the dangers/misery due to it being dark when children travel to school (happens if permanently on BST) or dark in the evening (happens if permanently on UTC)…

Solution to that is a shorter school day, e.g. 0900 to 1500, with the UK staying on GMT, or 1000 to 1600 if the popular vote is to stay fixed on BST..that way almost everybody travels into/out of school in daylight (sorry Scotland, you still lose out a bit)….that should help satisfy those worried about safety..

Any resultant loss of school hours in the week caused by the shorter school hours Monday to Friday can be compensated for by having some school on a Saturday.

Any takers…?

It might have been suggested, but why don't we just move them by half an hour next time and leave it there... Meet in the middle!

Solution to that is a shorter school day, e.g. 0900 to 1500

Erm… hate to break it to you, but that’s already the length of a primary school day…

@jerometheturnipking

Solution to that is a shorter school day, e.g. 0900 to 1500

Erm… hate to break it to you, but that’s already the length of a primary school day…

Fair enough…I only have vague memories of UK secondary where we finished later and being rural always came home in the dark (even during the permanent BST trial), and more recently a bit of experience of one continental system where secondary equivalent it’s was often 0800 to 1700…those winters were horrid and the clock change made no real difference..even so the kids survived.

Fair enough. Secondaries do finish later, although the ones near me operate on variations of 8:50-15:30. Where we are in the central belt that gets them in and out of school in daylight all year round.

I just can't believe so many people think dicking around with the school times is an acceptable alternative to moving the clocks.
Pish about kids getting up early, dick around with school time kids will still be up at the same time but start school and hour later, finish an hour later, and probably end up going to bed an hour later.
BTW you can almost guarantee nurseries, and baby group will also start later.

I assume those who moan about kids routine and clocks changing only ever holiday in UK, Ireland and Portugal.
If its so upsetting for your child why would you risk a holiday with a time change.

@Lockdownbear

I assume those who moan about kids routine and clocks changing only ever holiday in UK, Ireland and Portugal. If its so upsetting for your child why would you risk a holiday with a time change.

I think that’s a fair point but I suspect the response to that will be “ah but on holiday we’re not a strict timetable”…….

FWIW for time zone change due to travel it’s generally reckoned (by medics who investigate this sort of thing) that it takes about one day for your body to acclimatize to a one hour time zone change. That should mean that a Sun AM change BST to GMT or vice versa leaves you good to go Monday AM.

Maybe if the clocks have to be “dicked” around with the change should be done on the Friday/Sat night to allow two days of adjustment, but I know doing that would raise complaints from other quarters.

@jontyl

We only have so much daylight. Messing around with it gives me jetlag type symptoms for 2 days. Pointless especially as farmers just adjust their days to daylight hours. They don't do 9-5!! Schoolkids get chauffeured into school anyway. I personally think it's a way for the government/powers that be saying 'we're in control'.

most school kids have to walk and don't get 'chauffeured' so it's a bit daunting for them to have to be walking in pitch black if the clocks didn't change