To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

schoolsweek.co.uk/cancel-culture-gender-stereotypes-and-extreme-political-stances-what-new-dfe-guidance-says-about-rse/

Cats, I think you should look at the girlguiding activities on gender. From memory they breach your own guidance.

Oh, I wouldn’t have a problem with this. Letting kids know it’s ok not to be interested in sex seems fine to me

Apparently that’s not what asexual means any more.

@lifeturnsonadime

slashlover I don't know whether it is because I'm hungover from a halloween party but can you explain what you mean?

Are you saying that when an asexual person has sex with another person it is because they want sex not because they are sexually attracted to the person they are having sex with? How is that a sexuality?

I'm just really trying to understand. I can understand that it is a sexuality to not feel attracted to anyone and that it is helpful for people to understand that from a young age so they don't feel othered but I'm struggling to understand how an asexual person can then go on to have a sexual relationship when they don't feel sexual attraction?

Because you can like how sex feels without being attracted to the person.

I don’t suppose they’re going into detail

That cones down to trust doesn't it?

If they take advice from.people who think.its ok to lie about your sex with partners and who tell girls that lesbians can have a penis and who arrive of male rapists in women prisons. What evidence is there that they can he trusted here ?

Because you can like how sex feels without being attracted to the person.

I can accept that, but why is this labelled “asexual” and conflated with a total lack of interest in sex?

Not sexual desire, sexual ATTRACTION. They are not the same thing. I suppose if you have no experience of asexuality it might seem confusing. Education will help

It is confusing! If you have sexual desire but not sexual attraction, how do you choose the person with whom to fulfil desire?

I have a problem with random adults talking to children and young teens about sex or anything sex related. It crosses a boundary.

I think these discussions should only be had with parents, carers or in the context of PSHE under safeguarding supervision.

An organisation which works with younger people on something completely unconnected to sex should not have it on its social media feed and children as young as 13 (or younger) will be following it. It may lead to a discussion which the adults in the organisation shouldn’t have.

I don’t want to send my children to swimming, orchestra, football or indeed guiding and there having any conversation about sexual identity. I think it is completely inappropriate.

The more children are encouraged to discuss sexual identity and indeed sex with various adults, the more it normalises that. This is something predators will use.

I also believe that many messages get misunderstood by especially younger children. To be honest, I found the suggestion that anyone who lacked sexual attraction still could “be horny” and have sex with people sinister in this context - which is the context children and young teens. I don’t care what any consenting adults do.

@lifeturnsonadime

slashlover I don't know whether it is because I'm hungover from a halloween party but can you explain what you mean?

Are you saying that when an asexual person has sex with another person it is because they want sex not because they are sexually attracted to the person they are having sex with? How is that a sexuality?

I'm just really trying to understand. I can understand that it is a sexuality to not feel attracted to anyone and that it is helpful for people to understand that from a young age so they don't feel othered but I'm struggling to understand how an asexual person can then go on to have a sexual relationship when they don't feel sexual attraction?

Because the act of sex and sexuality are different.

Asexual people can enjoy the act of sex without being attracted to the other person. In the same way that I doubt many women are attracted to their vibrator but still enjoy the feelings it produces. Some asexual people are in loving relationships and enjoy having sex but don't fancy their partner.

@MolkosTeenageAngst

By some of the logic on this thread women who are pregnant and work with children should have to go and hide away from the moment their bump is showing and should never announce to any child they are expecting a baby because to do so is basically screaming from the rooftops ‘I have had sex with a man’ and therefore discussing sex lives with children.

Honestly, saying ‘I don’t have a partner and don’t want one I’m asexual’ is not the same as discussing your sex life. It shouldn’t be seen as disgusting, grooming or inappropriate to state your sexuality. I bet nobody on this thread would think it inappropriate if somebody asked a straight woman, ‘Do you have a girlfriend?’ and she said, ‘No, I’m single but also I’m not gay, I’d want a boyfriend.’ Most straight people would not want to be automatically assumed gay/ bisexual in every conversation and would no doubt see no issue in correcting the assumption of it were made. Why should asexual people just have to put up with it because to stare otherwise could be seen as ‘discussing their sex life.’

Saying I don’t have a partner and I don’t want one is fine, as has been repeated.

Saying I’m asexual isn’t. It signs posts to children who will google it that the many definitions given are totally fine. And that includes telling young girls that it’s normal to have no sexual attraction and still have sex. Which isn’t ok. In fact that’s v much the equivalent of telling lesbians they should learn to cope with sex with men.

Again, if someone mentions their husband or wife in passing they don’t do so with the disclaimer I’m bisexual or pansexual or asexual. That detail is what’s inappropriate for kids to be hearing from adults.

@CecilyP

Not sexual desire, sexual ATTRACTION. They are not the same thing. I suppose if you have no experience of asexuality it might seem confusing. Education will help

It is confusing! If you have sexual desire but not sexual attraction, how do you choose the person with whom to fulfil desire?

Usually in a loving relationship. Or masturbation.

you can give enthusiastic consent without feeling sexual attraction

If anyone said this to my child I would call the police.

So it’s not feeling attracted to anyone?

I think kids of that age can be told that some people don’t

I agree it’s a step too far to say “but some have sex anyway” because they could interpret that as encouraging them to have sex before they are ready

@CecilyP

Not sexual desire, sexual ATTRACTION. They are not the same thing. I suppose if you have no experience of asexuality it might seem confusing. Education will help

It is confusing! If you have sexual desire but not sexual attraction, how do you choose the person with whom to fulfil desire?

Based on things like emotional connection, shared and mutual interests, romantic attraction, love etc. It’s possible to deeply connect with people outside of sexual attraction otherwise none of us would have platonic friends etc. If an asexual person has a connection with somebody and a desire to have sex then they can open up a conversation with that person to find out whether they would be interested in sex with them regardless of whether there is a sexual attraction.

Sorry. I wasn’t suggesting that people can change their sexuality or that through using the term ‘identify’ I meant that you can choose who you are attracted to.

No you can't.

I can accept that, but why is this labelled “asexual” and conflated with a total lack of interest in sex?

Because asexuality is not about a lack of interest in sex. People may assume that's what it is though.

Saying I’m asexual isn’t. It signs posts to children who will google it that the many definitions given are totally fine. And that includes telling young girls that it’s normal to have no sexual attraction and still have sex. Which isn’t ok. In fact that’s v much the equivalent of telling lesbians they should learn to cope with sex with men.

People seem obsessed with this tiny part of what has been said on here. Nobody is telling young girls that. Heterosexuality could cause kids to google and find out about threesomes etc. Some asexual people may have sex in a loving, mutually respectful relationship where they just don;t fancy their partnet.

Is it now wrong to talk about sex in the terms of a loving relationship and intimacy? Do we just tell children that it's fucking. Like two porn stars rubbing their genitals against each other? It's so depressing. No wonder girls are opting out of being women. Makes me feel so sad.

@Franca123

you can give enthusiastic consent without feeling sexual attraction

If anyone said this to my child I would call the police.

Why?

@slashlover

According to posters up thread ace people can and do fall in love/have partners.

That’s the problem with varying definitions.

Because it's about sexual attraction, that's it. Every definition has said it's about the lack of sexual attraction.

It doesn't mean that our genitals don't work, or that we're incapable of loving someone or having a partner or the act of sex. Asexuals range from those who have never had sex and don't want to, to those who enjoy the act of sex and are married.

Heterosexuals range from those who have never had sex and don't want to, to those who enjoy the act of sex and are married.
Homosexuals range from those who have never had sex and don't want to, to those who enjoy the act of sex and are married.

The poster I was replying to said what’s wrong with telling kids some people don’t want partners.

I’ve said repeatedly that’s not any problem.

The problem is highlighting this as ‘asexual’ and kids being kids go and google and all the links say people who are asexual don’t have sexual attraction but do have sex.

That’s a very dangerous and damaging message to normalise to young girls who may well have no sense of sexual attraction yet just because they aren’t at that developmental stage yet. The risk is it normalises having sex when they don’t feel attraction. Which play into very harmful regressive sex role stereotypes that are already the norm and already damage girls autonomy and safety as is. So it’s more of the same conditioning girls that they should put out even if they don’t feel attraction. It’s not changing stereotypes it’s reinforcing them.

@Franca123

Is it now wrong to talk about sex in the terms of a loving relationship and intimacy? Do we just tell children that it's fucking. Like two porn stars rubbing their genitals against each other? It's so depressing. No wonder girls are opting out of being women. Makes me feel so sad.

WTF are you on about? Asexual people can have a loving relationship and intimacy. We're not robots.

Because its telling children to go against their gut instinct. To break down their boundaries. It is something a groomer would say.

OK I'm out. This asexual thing makes no sense whatsoever. It's completely incoherent. Have your label and have your flag. But keep it away from children.

@TheKeatingFive

Would celebrating Pride month be a problem - celebrating same-sex female relationships?

Exactly. I don't see what's so 'revolting' about being aware of asexuality.

Yes, it would be a problem for me. “Celebrating” any kind of sexuality in the context of children. Why raise it at all? Can’t they just talk about the many many many other aspects of life on this planet?

Neice is 10 and she and I had a conversation recently where she feels she might be Asexual because she isn’t attracted to either boys or girls. She has always felt this way but girlguiding just gave her the language and the safe space needed to talk about it. Her leader made it clear that at their age it’s perfectly normal not to find people attractive at her age & it’s ok to be different to her friends & to talk through how she feels with someone she trusts where I came in and I just reiterated the message. I am so grateful they do discuss female sexuality because girls are often totally forgotten or left out of this discussion at school (as it tends to be male centric).
.

The problem is highlighting this as ‘asexual’ and kids being kids go and google and all the links say people who are asexual don’t have sexual attraction but do have sex.

That’s a very dangerous and damaging message to normalise to young girls who may well have no sense of sexual attraction yet just because they aren’t at that developmental stage yet. The risk is it normalises having sex when they don’t feel attraction. Which play into very harmful regressive sex role stereotypes that are already the norm and already damage girls autonomy and safety as is. So it’s more of the same conditioning girls that they should put out even if they don’t feel attraction. It’s not changing stereotypes it’s reinforcing them.

I've just googled asexual and none of the links say that any more that googling heterosexual brings up links about kink etc. Can you please link we to them?

What age would you like asexuality to be introduced to kids? Please bare in mind that I knew I was asexual when I was 11 and several PPs have said the same.

Because asexuality is not about a lack of interest in sex. People may assume that's what it is though.

This is insane. It’s like having a conversation with Humpty Dumpty.

Why has the word “asexual” been redefined? What’s the new word for people who have no sexual desire?