To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

@catsandhens

*Step into that safeguarding nightmare? Don't fancy taking that fall when it comes. I'll stick with teaching thank you, much better for child protection.*

Google 'how many teachers in the uk jailed for sexual assault' - lots of results.

Google 'how many girl guide leaders jailed for sexual assault' - guess how many results there were to that..

But sure, teaching is perfection and guide leaders (who are not actually teaching girls about being asexual despite the frothing on the thread) are in fact the demon spawn themselves

Do you know how many teachers there are in proportion to gg leaders? 100:1, 1000:1?

Plus I’m assuming gg leaders are female (they were when I was a kid at gg)?

Females commit less than 2% of all sex crimes, males commit 98%+.

What proportion of teachers are male?

Numbers are meaningless without context. Apply some critical thinking skills please.

Safeguarding relies on a kerfulful and fuss about things that might never happen

And for people to “get their pearls in a twist” wondering why organisations that work with children are increasingly involved with easing “awareness” of adult sexuality.

It’s one thing people looking back and wishing that they had been aware of various sexualities. This is very removed for our primary aged children, many of whom are already labelling their sexuality and (often multiple) gender identities.

Who benefits from this pseudo precocious “awareness” our very young children have now?

Apply some critical thinking skills please.

You literally said:

I'll stick with teaching thank you, much better for child protection.

No real critical thinking there when there are male teachers being jailed for sexually assaulting children, but guiding is made up of women who don't, kinda seems a bit better for child protection no?

Still I will stop here, as you just cant argue with stupid!

Most GG leaders in know are either primary teachers, retired teachers or work in healthcare so everyone is pretty good with safeguarding anyway. Also I’ve never ever met a male GG leader. Sometimes a Dad will help with a meeting here and there. Never comes on camp etc.

@RhymesWithOrange

You talked about legal, economic, and social. I agree with you on the first two. I do not agree with you that older virgins or asexual people are not discriminated against socially. Discrimination in the social sense can involve many things and yes, can involve deliberately hurting another person's feelings.

Deliberately hurting someone's feelings is not discrimination.

This ^^

If anyone is harassing older virgins for being virgins this might constitute sexual harassment. But there are people who are straight, gay or bi who are older virgins also. It’s not exclusive to being asexual. Some may have religious reasons for it, some because they were victims of other csa, some because they aren’t attractive to others, a fuck ton of other reasons.

So harassing them is unlikely to be because of asexuality, the harasser is unlikely to know they are asexual in most cases i’d imagine. It’s also most likely that any sexual harassment will target female older virgins, not male.

So if the ‘discrimination’ crossed into sexual harassment that’s covered by other laws.

Otherwise, being laughed at or called the odd throwaway name or whatever is not discrimination. And that word shouldn’t be misused so carelessly.

Outside of tongue in cheek humour of course ; )

I said that actually.

And teaching has robust safeguarding, which I am more confident in protecting my own profession.

Mark my words, girl guiding are headed for their first conception/rape on a camp scandel due to their mixed sex approach.

It might take ten months or ten years but it will happen unless changes are made.

It is a form of social discrimination. Just like any other bullying. It is not discrimination in law.

Excellent. We agree. Not discrimination. The rest is just you whining that people went to see the movie 40 Year Old Virgin and thought it was funny.

No one knows who's having sex, who isn't, why, why not and literally no one who has progressed beyond upper sixth cares. Get over yourself. You're like a football fanatic claiming that people making fun of your club means that you're an oppressed minority.

Also I’ve never ever met a male GG leader. Sometimes a Dad will help with a meeting here and there. Never comes on camp etc

That has changed now. Males are now allowed to be guide leaders. Girl gides also take male children who are allowed to share accommodation with the girls.

Girl guides also don't feel the need to tell parents that the woman leader attending camp with their daughter , or the male child sharing a tent with their daughter is actually a male.

If they say they are women/girls then they are treated as such

[quote catsandhens]@BloodinGutters

Women go fix the problem yourself.

I mean its an organisation for women/girls run by women/girls - not sure why you would expect anyone other than women to fix the "problems" women are flagging up. I'm pretty sure this isnt a problem for men to fix - so.....[/quote]
Safeguarding laws that govern it are as much men’s responsibility as women’s.

You do know that though.

My daughter is only in rainbows but if they carry on with this shite I'll be withdrawing here before she gets to guides

Then apologies I got it wrong @BelleOfTheProvince it is quite late

However mixed sex approach is irrelevant to the topic which is a tweet about asexuality

But if we are dragging the trans debate in, as if somehow gender debates and sexuality debates are one and the same:

Primary schools ( aka way younger than guides) have been critised for inviting in drag queens to read to children.

But sure, a tweet is on the same level, whatever - as with my comment to the other poster, cant argue with stupid.

But if we are dragging the trans debate in, as if somehow gender debates and sexuality debates are one and the same

Because the same people are involved in the " training "

Why would anyone trust a word they say?

If they are happy to tell girls that lesbians can have a penis what makes you assume their explanation asexuality is going to be truthful.

Primary schools ( aka way younger than guides) have been critised for inviting in drag queens to read to children.
Which is why the DfE guidance was published, so I imagine it was dealt with appropriately by the local authority.

You can call me stupid if you like, I'm a teacher. Have been called much worse in my time.

Doesn't stop me being more experienced in safeguarding and guiding than you though.

@catsandhens

Apply some critical thinking skills please.

You literally said:

I'll stick with teaching thank you, much better for child protection.

No real critical thinking there when there are male teachers being jailed for sexually assaulting children, but guiding is made up of women who don't, kinda seems a bit better for child protection no?

Still I will stop here, as you just cant argue with stupid!

I didn’t say that. You must be quoting someone else.

But please address the other points in that post.

How many teachers are there in proportion to gg leaders?

What proportion of teachers are male?

And adjust the likelihood of risk to take into account the reality that male are responsible for 98%+ of all sexual crimes.

Anyone good with stats on this thread?? Can that be adjusted for? Or do we just need to apply common sense to see that it’s a false equivalency to compare gg leaders and teachers with regards to sexual assault convictions.

Doesn’t mean there’s no safeguarding risk at gg. Heard of grooming? Social grooming? Sex role stereotype socialisation?

@catsandhens

Then apologies I got it wrong *@BelleOfTheProvince* it is quite late

However mixed sex approach is irrelevant to the topic which is a tweet about asexuality

But if we are dragging the trans debate in, as if somehow gender debates and sexuality debates are one and the same:

Primary schools ( aka way younger than guides) have been critised for inviting in drag queens to read to children.

But sure, a tweet is on the same level, whatever - as with my comment to the other poster, cant argue with stupid.

That’s why the d of e guidance was updated recently and ofsted have updated their assessment criteria to take this into account.

Primary schools (and secondary) have fucked up truly. But they are being held to account now the guidance is updated and being enforced. It won’t change over night, and it requires parents complaining to ensure they follow it a lot of the time, and ofsted are going to be busy….. but there are checks and balances with schools.

@RhymesWithOrange

It is a form of social discrimination. Just like any other bullying. It is not discrimination in law.

Excellent. We agree. Not discrimination. The rest is just you whining that people went to see the movie 40 Year Old Virgin and thought it was funny.

No one knows who's having sex, who isn't, why, why not and literally no one who has progressed beyond upper sixth cares. Get over yourself. You're like a football fanatic claiming that people making fun of your club means that you're an oppressed minority.

I never said it was discrimination in law. I made that distinction very clear in my second response to you, which you quoted back to me. I said "legally, no, socially, definitely".

I'm not sure I need to get over myself, I think you need to read more carefully rather than arguing with someone you apparently agree with.

Why aren't these topics left for schools and parents to handle?

If I send my child to football, gymnastics or swimming; to acting classes, chess club or orchestra, I wouldn't expect them to be discussing their sexuality there. Why is guides different?

@Whatwouldscullydo

But if we are dragging the trans debate in, as if somehow gender debates and sexuality debates are one and the same

Because the same people are involved in the " training "

Why would anyone trust a word they say?

If they are happy to tell girls that lesbians can have a penis what makes you assume their explanation asexuality is going to be truthful.

Yes indeed, the term Asexual is under stonewalls trans id umbrella, as in LGBTQA+. The plus covers the autistic spectrum. I had a friend in her 30's tell me she identifies as Asexual, however she's also going after an ADHD diagnosis after being advised on reddit to buy amphetamine on the dark web so as to fool her doctor. Such is her desperation to belong under that trans umbrella that she has criminalised herself and will likely harm herself as she has a serious renal complaint.

They have no background in child hood development

No concept of safe guarding

Are campaigning for the sex by deception clause to be removed .

I have no idea why organisations that deal with children keep inviting them in to train.

Its basically like asking your dentist to install your Windows.

@oviraptor21

Why aren't these topics left for schools and parents to handle?

If I send my child to football, gymnastics or swimming; to acting classes, chess club or orchestra, I wouldn't expect them to be discussing their sexuality there. Why is guides different?

Excellent point

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

a horny asexual person with a sex drive

We’re through the looking glass again, aren’t we?

You can enjoy food without being hungry. You can enjoy the physical act of sex without experiencing sexual attraction. You can feel sexual arousal without wanting to have sex with another human being. There is nothing ‘through the looking glass’ about that.

God I really hope you're not a guide leader @catsandhens. Your disdain for safeguarding is really worrying.

@FlatCheese

Exactly - I don't care whether Jane in Accounts is bisexual. She can talk about it if she likes. If she mentions her partner "Alice" or "Bob" she can freely talk about them. I don't need to know who she's attracted to.

If someone's asexual they can talk about it if they want. I just don't really see the need for anyone to know about anyone else's sexuality. If they're in/not in a relationship I don't need to know why because it's none of my business.

Hi Jane how are you? Shit, my boyfriend finished with me. I don’t understand what his problem is. Oh no I’m sorry to hear that. Do you want to talk about it? Yes, have you ever had someone dump you for no reason?? No, not personally I’m asexual so I haven’t ever had a boyfriend.

That kind of conversation should be something you can openly say without it being a big thing, or people thinking it’s weird. No one is saying anyone wants to announce their aceness in the middle of the office, but it is something you should be able to talk about

@YNK the + does not cover the autistic spectrum at all.

Why would your friend taking amphetamine fool her doctor into thinking she has Adhd?

I have Adhd, diagnosed as a child and again as adult. Stimulants are the first line treatment for adhd. Her taking illegal stimulants would likely mask symptoms and make it less likely to get a diagnosis.

It’s notoriously difficult to get diagnosed with Adhd as an adult anyways. It’s a huge postcode lottery with plenty ccgs that don’t have an adult Adhd service, and they are allowed to refuse to pay for assessments at other ccgs. And those that have adult Adhd services hand years & years of waiting lists and the chance of getting an appointment if you don’t already have a diagnosis from childhood was very slim pre covid, now…..

I’m technically under an adult adhd service. I’m on ritilin which is a controlled substance and requires close monitoring & 6 monthly reviews with prescribing psych. Bp, pulse, weight etc all done also. I get my meds, but I haven’t had a review in 6 years. So that’s how bad adult adhd services are. Your poor friend if she has adhd, if she doesn’t there’s zero chance of dx.

I'm surprised any parent would still send their female daughter to girl guides. There are so many red flags everywhere. It seems to be an organisation hell bent on lowering female children's boundaries, making them at risk of predatory adults. Not in a million years will my daughter be going.