Just relax, lower your standards....

[PippyLongmocking]

...live in a shit hole.

Why do untidy people get to languish in their own filth and squalor, while tidy people get the choices of;

1. Clean and tidy for them.
2. Nag, whine, beg, plead, create whiteboards, starcharts, threaten divorce.
3. 'Lower your standards'. In other words live in a crap hole.

Why does no bugger say 'increase your standards' or 'compromise you piggy, pay for a cleaner'?

Aibu to think the messiest laziest member of the household has a better deal.
They get to do jack shit while proclaiming 'I just don't see mess' 'it doesn't bother me'.

My standards are now so low that it's unrecognisable what they are.

The people on this thread proclaiming 'oh I'm messy too! It's just how I am!' Are making me feel itchy.

It's not messy to leave a house for weeks on end until it's filthy. A bit of mess is acceptable but to leave things until there is visible grime isn't.

You made me think of this article @PippyLongmocking

mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/

Worth a read, even better if you can get your DH to read it.

I can't believe someone upthread is saying to just ignore a mouldy bathroom by "shoving a towel in the door gap and leaving it"

Mould affects everyone in the house - it's a health hazard and will affect the structure and value of the property going forward.

Honestly. Some people will say anything to justify their lazy, unhygienic behaviour.

YANBU at all OP. A bit of mess is one thing but mouldy walls and shower curtains is quite another! Never lower your standards for someone else.

This reminds me of a recent guardian article:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/15/you-be-the-judge-im-super-tidy-my-girlfriend-is-not-should-she-change-her-ways

In this case I thought they were both being ridiculous and needed to find a middle ground.

A person with too high standards is never going to be happy. They are going to invest all their energy into achieving a perfection nobody else could ever reach. And nobody has the right to inflict their "rules" about tidiness on another person just because they prefer it that way. That's selfishness - if your needs to have things in place at all times is causing stress in your loved ones' lives for no reasonable explanation (safety, health, hygiene) but just pickiness, then you are putting your needs too far above others'.

A person who doesn't clean up after themselves is shirking their responsibility as an adult and needs to grow up. If you leave a trail of mess after yourself then you are selfish. When things smell, create a slipping or tripping hazard, spread germs, then you are creating a problem for others and a decent human is going to make the effort to stop being a problem for those around them. Otherwise it's just selfishness - that your laziness is more important than your loved ones happiness and safety.

It depends where you and your partner are at. If you just have reasonable expectations about cleanliness and hygiene and your partner is shirking their responsibility then yes it is they who need to change. Sometimes it's the other way around though - the partner is just being a control freak and needs to let go a bit.

I don’t disagree with you generally.

But from some Mumsnet threads about people washing bedding daily (and I know someone personally who cleans her whole bathroom twice a day and does her entire house with antibac daily), some people could do with lowering their standards a little bit.

My DH thinks I’m nagging when I point out he’s left toothpaste in the sink and piss on the toilet rim. Well why the fuck should I clean it ?
It makes me so mad.

Yanbu.

But he hasn't just got lower standards then you. Those words are too kind. He's selfish, lazy, thoughtless and (from later posts) actually a disgusting pig.

I think your divorce comment was actually tongue in cheek (and I agree with a pp that don't threaten it less you mean it), but....I've divorced my ex, this being one of the reasons, and oh my...my life is now marvellous, heavenly bliss. A bitter load instantly lifted off my shoulders.

Like pp, I would never ever live with someone like this again.

I’m think people think that when people moan about their OH’s lack of housekeeping contribution they’re like @SickAndTiredAgain’s example rather than @GoodnightGrandma’s. There are varying degrees but it’s really common that people are just low level slobs, which in itself is just disrespectful and wearing, rather than the offended party permanently scrubbing at their house with bleach.

What PurpleOkapi said.

Mess doesn't really bother me. It can pile up and eventually, when it annoys me I'll blitz.

I think that there are 'blitzers' like me and 'keep on top of' people.

My kitchen and bathroom are cleaned every week but we have a lot of clutter. My house is usually messy but I'll make an effort if people are coming.

My friend's house is always tidy. I asked how she did it and she said that she did things when she saw them.

So I tried that way and dear god it was exhausting! I felt like I never sat down. I decided that life was too short and went back to my mess then blitz approach.

Fortunately DH is the same. Either of us load the dishwasher either at night or the following morning. He will often vac while I clean the bathroom and kitchen. But if we are away for the weekend it can wait another week!

Dirt, mould, dust - disgusting, no one should have to live like that.

But toys on the floor, a cup or glass left by the side for a few hours, unmade beds, I’m not fussed at all about.

I would hate to live with someone chasing my around all the time tbh.

Lowering your standards is usually said to people who struggle to fit everything into a day and put too much pressure on themselves to have a show home despite looking after very young children/ working long hours/ caring for someone etc.

It is important to recognise that not everything has to be perfect all the time. My (single) mother tried to live with impossibly high cleaning standards, got irrationally angry at us and made our childhood miserable, partly because of that. I am probably more messy now out of sheer rebellion.

However, and that is important: there is messy and MESSY and there is messy and unclean.

Unclean is never acceptable, for health reasons. So, dishes, hob, bathroom, clothing, bedding, pets, fridge, bins - keeping on top of those is a MUST. That doesn't mean wash up after every glass that was put down, but do the dishes at least once a day. Clean up filth. Dust when you can write "clean me" into the layer. Hoover when walking through the house is crunchy time.

Messy to the point you can't freely move around the house or regularly struggle to find things is also unacceptable - one, because it's a health hazard, two, because not finding things is irritating.

But if messy means having a few piles of stuff here and there because you were too damn tired to deal with it for a few weeks, then... meh? Life is too short for that.

It's about a decent middle ground, as always.

@Cornettoninja

I’m think people think that when people moan about their OH’s lack of housekeeping contribution they’re like *@SickAndTiredAgain’s example rather than @GoodnightGrandma*’s. There are varying degrees but it’s really common that people are just low level slobs, which in itself is just disrespectful and wearing, rather than the offended party permanently scrubbing at their house with bleach.

You are right about disrespectful and wearing. If I’m the only one doing the cleaning, why on earth should I have to rinse the sink of your toothpaste etc every day as well. It really causes resentment.

At first I thought love and let live but the mess you're describing sounds quite problematic.

It's one thing to be untidy and leave stuff about but another not to make a bed properly (sleeping on a bare mattress?!?) and have unhygienic bathrooms.

My dh is untidy but he is good at cleaning.

Mess = fine
Mould/piss/unhygienic/no bedding = never fine

I hear you @GoodnightGrandma. I told my DP it’s very hard to be sexually attracted to someone who treats me like a skivvy and presumes I will clean up after them (specifically about the toilet iirc).

Have a read of that article I posted up thread, it gives me some hope that people can actually process why it’s an issue.

@musicalfrog

I'd love to increase my standards but with two young dc, work and keeping on top of the basics, it's really hard fwiw living in a messy house makes me sad too. But give me a chance, some time and some support instead of bitching all the time and I'm more likely to get stuff done.

Clearly this isn't the case here if the OP is being made to feel like her standards are 'too high'. No need to take it personally

Why do women put up with such poor excuses for men? Like did you aspire to be a housewife with no rights, do you enjoy being husbands property?

Surely you lived with your partners before you got married, did you think they'd just "grow out of it" even though they're fully grown men?

Why do you give them a pass to be fuckwits??

I can answer, for me, the 'why did you have kids with them if you knew they were like this' type comments.

I didn't know.

Before we had kids, we had high disposable income. Had a cleaner, ate out most of the time, were never in to make a mess.

Kids come along. Less disposable income. You're in more. More mess. Less eating out.

My husband has a nice car, it’s his pride and joy. Always clean and tidy, smells nice. When we go in it as a family he is always saying no feet on the seats, no eating in the car make sure you take everything back into the house after car journey.

Yet he leaves stuff laying about the house doesn’t wash up his tea tray he makes himself every morning and just leaves it for me. One period of self isolation for him I got pissed off with him leaving stuff laying about. He was not unwell just lazy or thinks it’s my job to pick up after him. Over the course of 10 days I collected every empty water bottle/packet/item of clothing/ left over bread from his fucking tea tray and all the other random shit he leaves laying about and placed it lovingly in the back of his car.

First day out of his isolation he went to his precious car to discover 10 days worth of his shit in the back. He was furious, I said if you don’t want it in your car why do you accept it in the house? I told him from that point on any shit I have to pick up after him will be deposited in his car. Not had an issue since!

I generally advise people to lower their standards if they're one of those mumsnetters who insist on washing towels after every use, changing bedding multiple times a week, hoovering every day etc etc because I personally think they're mad and I couldn't live with someone like that - objectively, those items are not dirty and do not need a wash, they are just doing it for themselves.

However in your case no you shouldn't lower your standards, making a bed and wiping piss of the toilet and doing some tidying, ever, are completely minimum standards.

I'd be so pissed off that he changed after kids, as most people wouldn't have chosen to have kids with someone like this.

Who is telling you to lower your standards? Is it him?

What does he say about not doing anything in the house? Why is it your job?

I hope you're not doing anything for him. Any of his washing, tidying any of his stuff aside from shoving it all somewhere like a big tub out of sight, any cooking, any washing.

Would he have marriage counselling? It might help if he has to explain to a stranger why he doesn't think he is responsible for wiping his own piss up?

If not, I know you say he has redeeming features but I think you need to leave. Even if its temporary it might shock him into seeing how much this affects you and force him to start doing some stuff in the house. Otherwise the resentment and unfairness is going to kill your marriage anyway

Resentment.
That is the word that is a relationship/marriage killer. It’s all over when that sets in.

Do you sleep in different beds or have I missed something?

Could you get a cleaner?

I think it's really hard when you have different expectations and yes it could break a marriage. I think this is as important as having similar ideas around finances and DC. It's fundamental.

I wouldn't want to share a house with someone I thought was unhygienic. But also, I wouldn't want to live with someone who was constantly fussing and nagging when I thought it was acceptable.

Goodnightgrandma omg!!

@felulageller

Goodnightgrandma omg!!

Do I assume you’ve got resentment ?

The standards you describe are beyond low, and I totally recognise why you don't want to put up with them.

I don't think everyone on this thread is describing the same thing. No one could say I was a tidy person. But I'm not a dirty person - in fact I now have a cleaner as it forces me to tidy up every week so it never gets too dreadful. I once lived with someone else who got to the point where they had taken the sheets off their bed to wash and didn't put them back on. She made me look like a tidy person generally but that was the final straw - I ended up saying "nope nope nope, this is not a standard of living that is going to become acceptable, these need doing now" and stood and helped and she did accept that.

I do, however, think there's a half way house between now that point, and people who insist you have to tidy things the minute they are messy: I often want to sit and relax after dinner and I'll sort the kitchen later - that's not inherently a problem: there's no health hazard, no one else needs to use it to cook in the interim, so why should my desire to not do it now by outweighed by someone else's for it to be done now?