Shocked at how terrible the NHS is nowadays

[ConfusedBoobs]

I had a mammogram a month ago that showed I have calcifications that they don't think are cancer but they won't know for sure until after I've had a biopsy. Today I found out that the biopsy can't be prioritised as urgent and so will still be another month away. AIBU to think it's terrible to leave people in limbo like this?

My stepdad has been waiting all day in A&E for investigation into chest pain. He had heart surgery a year ago. Just insane.

My experience of the NHS in recent years has been that its bloody brilliant for acute care, absolutely shite for chonic. My daughter has asthma and when she's had an exacerbation they have saved her life multiple times.

But trying to get a bog standard GP appointment is like pulling teeth for me at the moment. The hoops you are required to jump through just to get to see a GP are insane and I just can't spare the time to do it. To get seen at my GP at the moment you have to be prepared to sit on the phone for about an hour and a half to get into a lottery system that means if you're really lucky you just might get an appointment that day (but far more likely not) but you can forget about booking anything longer term. I'm a single mother with a full time job and I just can't justify the time off work which is necessary to secure an appointment, let alone actually go to the GP if I got one.

Ideologically I am a huge supporter of the NHS. I know the Tories are deliberately trying to run it down for ideological reasons and I know I should support it. But the reality is that for people like me its simply not workable any more and I have ended up going private just because I just can't justify the time off that is required to negotiate the time necessary to secure an appointment. It makes me really fucking angry but life is too short to take a half day's leave every time you want to speak to someone at a surgery on the phone.

I don't know what the solution is but I feel like the NHS at the point of day to day GP care has become unworkable for most working people: it only really exists now to serve the unemployed or retired. And I've had enough of it now.

A few things:

Prevention is better than cure, we should all take greater personal responsibility for our health. I accept that this is harder for some groups and that social-economic disadvantage makes this harder. We should invest more in health promotion and public health.

We should be realistic about what we expect from the NHS. This leads to difficult conversations that no politician wants to have, we already ration care, this is just hidden. We either invest more money or we become more explicit in the rationing.

We should use the system we have more sensibly. Do you really need an ambulance/to present to A&E? Why did you miss your appointment which means that you needed another one?

There needs to be an understanding that NHS trusts are multimillion pound businesses. This requires layers of management structures, just as it would in any business. But repeated restructures of the environment the business is operating in are actively harmful. Just pick a plan and stick with it, tweak but don’t overturn for 10-20 years. In the interim do high quality research about the effectiveness of the health care system, adapt based upon evidence, not politics.

@Ikeameatballs
Prevention is better than cure, we should all take greater personal responsibility for our health. I accept that this is harder for some groups and that social-economic disadvantage makes this harder.

fine, but preventative care requires some engagement with the GP. And this is next to impossible at the moment unless you have an acute problem. "Taking greater personal responsibility for your health" is all good and well but that means some engagement with the health system. As long as you accept that there should be publicly funded healthcare then it should at least be theoretically possible to see a primary healthcare provider. Which for many people it's not, at the moment. Unless you pay or have private healthcare.

@thepeopleversuswork there is a chronic shortage of GPs. I can get an appointment fairly easily, but I am in an area with low GP vacancies. In some areas vacancies are high. The only short term way to solve it is immigration. If the health service was totally privatised tomorrow, this is the only way they could solve it.

Just seen another thread where a woman has been quoted the same length of wait on the NHS as going private. Because the issue is a lack of staff.

Thank fuck I'm in Scotland and we've got a small hope keeping our NHS Tory free.

+1

@julieca

Well I would have no problem with using immigration to solve this problem. The NHS has relied on the services of immigrants for decades.

I'm in London and where I live it is literally impossible to see a GP without essentially booking an entire day off work. I've just thrown in the towel with it to be honest.

Never forget that insurance is based on risk - how likely is the insurance company going to have to pay out. So they screen out pre existing conditions etc.
The UK spends less per head of population on NHS treatment than some countries in Europe spend on their public healthcare 'safety net' services.

I think people don't appreciate that many of the issues with the NHS are issues in other developed countries too. We have a "single payer" system in Canada, so it is free at the point of care, but care is more frequently outsourced to private institutions and doctors are generally independent contractors rather than employees. The system is good in many respects but it has a lot of the same issues as the NHS especially regarding wait times and understaffing. 14% of Canadians also don't have a GP, which is a scandal. Some doctors are also significantly overpaid- the income of certain specialists would make your eyes water.

I also find it odd that so many posters think the Tories have a nefarious plan to underfund the NHS into extinction. I mean the country has been under Tory rule for the majority of the time the NHS has been in existence, and it hasn't happened yet.

I think the best system is an NHS that is properly funded and staffed, and has many, many layers of bureaucracy removed. Which unfortunately isn't the case at the moment.

Every attempt at reform has created further bureaucracy.

@teezletangler the Tories did not want an NHS system at its inception and they've chipped away at it ever since when in power.

21 times they voted against it being formed:

www.westendatwar.org.uk/page/what_resistance_was_there_to_the_formation_of_the_nhs

Modern day Tory:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-privatise-nhs-tories-privatising-private-insurance-market-replacement-direct-democracy-a6865306.html%3famp

The fact is that by voting for this government since 2010 and certainly the current bunch of arses, as well as Brexit, then ironically it is ordinary earning people in average and often downtrodden towns that have actually put this bunch in power- the government are having a damn good laugh, they despise the non independently rich, but they certainly know what bells to pull to get these people voting for them , blame it on too many foreigners or doctors not working hard enough(they have one hell of a cheek) rather than the fact that intelligent talented health professionals have left the country due to their shitty attitudes towards anyone working here but not born here— and the fact they have pissed away 37 billion on a track and trace that doesn’t work and 370 billion on Brexit that has no advantages to all but the offshore tax hiding wealthy and asset strippers— and for those idiots saying ‘my wages as a lorry driver/warehouse worker/van driver etc have gone up a lot— yep and so will the cost of living and tax and more firms will go bust— it’s very short term thinking .

@thepeopleversuswork neither would I. But our country has decided to create a hostile environment for immigrants.
Yes I had wondered if you were in London as shortage of GPs seems to be particularly bad there.
In my area I rang up about 6 weeks ago for an appointment but said to the receptionist it wasn't urgent. I was given an appointment for two days time. Half an hour later the GP rang me and repeated what I had told the receptionist and asked me questions. Then booked me in for 9 am the following day for a face to face appointment. Referred me the next day for a scan that I had three weeks later, then next week (about 5 weeks later) I have a consultants appointment.
My issue is not urgent. Not cancer and I can manage it fine. But it can suddenly get worse and become an urgent situation. It might never do so though, and tbh it is currently I think pretty mild. So I have been more than happy with timescales.

I’m sorry OP, the waiting is dreadful. When they found a brain tumour on my husband’s CT scan they said they wouldn’t know if it was “a bad one” or not until he had an MRI…could I get a date out of them?! No. It was unbearable not knowing if it was a death sentence or not. We went private (I realise we are lucky to be able to do so) and had one booked within a day and a consultant appointment straight after. It’s not right but if you can at the mo, I think you have to :-( Wishing you the best.

Public health occurs before people hit the GP. It’s about reducing takeaways near schools, adding cycle lanes, making exercise easy to access, cheap fruit and veg and cooking lessons and utensils so people can cook.

Reducing smoking, alcohol and obesity would, if combined effectively have the biggest impact on health in the UK. We can all contribute to that without seeing a doctor or nurse.

@WorryMcGee a woman on another thread has been given the same wait time for a mammogram going private as on the NHS. There is a lack of staff.
I hope your husband was okay.

It must be a postcode lottery because I've had brilliant experience of the NHS recently. I have had a few issues and had no problem speaking to a GP who sorted them quickly.
Ds has a non-urgent but nonetheless ongoing quality of life issue which I spoke to GP about, referral was made to specialist service, appt received less than a month later, and procedure he needs booked in for 2 weeks after the appt.
And the HCP he saw was so kind, patient and understanding of his sensitivities (ASD) and skill full. I can't praise them enough, in my area for these issues at least.

@Mumsgirls

The private system in USA is far better than anything here, but it is very expensive, so unless you are rich or have good employer cover, you are stuck Here we have made a holy cow of the NHS which now provides a very poor service. Meanwhile nhs consultants do private work on the side, for those with money or a rare excellent employer scheme. I have severe health problems and am so grateful that my employer covers me with as a work benefit. I would be in a right mess without it, but not fair

That’s grossly naive.

A friend had a life threatening illness and her work provide private insurance. I was surprised she opted for NHS treatment. She said the care and outcomes were better under the NHS.
DP has a rare chronic illness. The only specialist consultant in England only does NHS work. You have to go abroad to go private.

healthandcare.scot/default.asp?page=story&story=1862

Sadly Scotland has privatised a fair amount of NHS services.

The only way is to make small charges at point of service, but keep it free for those on low incomes. The money has to come from somewhere. Even in Europe people pay out more for their health. Here we seem to think everyone else should pay for it.

Not the point of your post, OP, but just to let you know that my mammogram last year revealed calcifications and they turned out to be harmless.

So don't stress too much, they're probably fine.

@Knownbyanothername no, you increase tax, Charges at point of use would mean people like my dad would have died.

Fil had a scan this week and has been called in for a biopsy 11 days later. That's because they think it is cancer, so be careful what you wish for.

@julieca we are the only country in the whole world to provide free at the point of service. Does that mean all other countries have got it wrong? The NHS is not the shining beacon people think it is.