Shocked at how terrible the NHS is nowadays

[ConfusedBoobs]

I had a mammogram a month ago that showed I have calcifications that they don't think are cancer but they won't know for sure until after I've had a biopsy. Today I found out that the biopsy can't be prioritised as urgent and so will still be another month away. AIBU to think it's terrible to leave people in limbo like this?

[quote julieca]@BigWoollyJumpers Canada pays 4x per patient on healthcare than we do. Across the EU it is double.
I work in the private sector. I can point out waste of money in the private sector as well. That happens. But you cant pay less than other countries for healthcare and expect the same outcomes.[/quote]
You have to be careful as these figures do not compare like for like. Most EU systems are part tax, part insurance, part co-pay based systems, and use private providers as well as state hospitals to provide care. The pot doesn't just come out of general taxation like it does in the UK, and they don't just use state funded hospitals. Also everyone gets a basic standard of care, but those who are more wealthy can pay extra and upgrade their care.

Yes, we need to pay more, but not necessarily exclusively through taxation, and to further accept that there will always be a two tier system for those who can afford it.

Well it’s interesting that spending £15 on a flu injection is not going down too well here, when it should be ‘free’.

Health expenditure per capita- check the table at the bottom. Canada does not spend 4x more than the uk

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

@torquewench

My friends 96 yo mum.has recently passed away in hospital (Aintree) as a result of infection caused through bedsores. How much of its hundreds of billions of pounds a year budget does the NHS throw at negligence claims?

Estimates published last year put the total cost of outstanding compensation claims at £83bn. NHS England's total budget in 2018-19 was £129bn

Almost the total annual budget .

I’d be happy to spend the money on a flu jab if that was what is expected of me. My point earlier was that there hasn’t been enough allocated for my age group(and that age group is entitled to a free jab). The system isn’t working.

@BigWoollyJumpers Yes I know you want co pay and private insurance with the NHS left just for the poorest. It will benefit rich people. Poor people will die younger. I know you don't care about that.

[quote julieca]@BigWoollyJumpers Yes I know you want co pay and private insurance with the NHS left just for the poorest. It will benefit rich people. Poor people will die younger. I know you don't care about that.[/quote]
No, I want an EU system. Are you suggesting that the EU has shit systems and leaves the poor dying in the streets? Don't be ridiculous.

You’re missing the point @julieca. The current system isn’t working. Throwing more money at it isn’t the solution. No one is suggesting abandoning the poor but something has to change.The rich have always been able to afford private care so they would continue to do that anyway. If negligence payouts are nearly as much as the annual budget for the NHS then something is very very wrong.

@Knownbyanothername

You’re missing the point *@julieca*. The current system isn’t working. Throwing more money at it isn’t the solution. No one is suggesting abandoning the poor but something has to change.The rich have always been able to afford private care so they would continue to do that anyway. If negligence payouts are nearly as much as the annual budget for the NHS then something is very very wrong.

I am old enough to remember that there didn't used to be negligence payouts at all; as there was something called 'Crown Immunity'; now that was scary. Removed by the Tories in 1990s I think.

@BigWoollyJumpers Which EU system? There are many.
I want taxation to fund an improved NHS. Insurance schemes need lots of government regulation not to disadvantage people with pre-existing conditions and spend money selling insurance and managing policies. They also generate profits for shareholders. That money could be better spent on medical treatments.
The most vulnerable people already have the poorest access to healthcare. I don't support anything that enhances that disadvantage. Healthcare should not just be for middle-class people.

We have been told for decades that privatisation solves issues with public services. We see over and over again that is not the case. There has been scandal after scandal. Group 4 and its many scandals in delivering public services. Priory group and the recent scandal of undertrained low wage staff way out of their depth with seriously mentally ill people.
I do expect that the service for middle-class people would improve under your plans and lots on MN would be happy. They don't really care about all of those who don't have the same level of power and would be in a much worse situation.

And you have to compare negligence payouts compared to a well funded system. I know there is negligence that should not happen. But I also know in the US medical insurance for Drs is very expensive due to negligence payouts. Some will happen even in the best system. So what level is standard across countries with good health systems?

@julieca

And you have to compare negligence payouts compared to a well funded system. I know there is negligence that should not happen. But I also know in the US medical insurance for Drs is very expensive due to negligence payouts. Some will happen even in the best system. So what level is standard across countries with good health systems?

The effect in the USA is that doctors over test for everything just in case they miss something and then get sued. The NHS tends to under test/wait till you have severe symptoms. There is probably a happy medium somewhere in the EU. In the USA medical professionals also have to pay out for professional insurance against claims. It is not a model I would want. The Dutch system seems to work quite well. Although I don't like their emphasis on drug-free birth. You can't really expect people to pay high taxes and then have to wait months/years for basic care in the NHS.

Except we don't pay high taxes.

Insurance based systems are not synonymous with for-profit. The German system is quite complicated, but the sickness funds are not for-profit. Germans are very very happy with their system which offers amazing choice and service.

In Israel, the basic level of services is defined by the government and paid for through the health tax. You must choose one of the 4 health funds, which are non profits. Doctors visits and hospital treatment are free. You can then pay for one of two levels of supplemental services which are priced by age. A 30 year old would pay about 50 shekel a month, or about £12.

There's all sorts of ways to run a health system. The NHS isn't the only fair way.

Sorry you're going through this OP.

Yes it's a mess.

My son is on a waiting list that we have been told Is 3 years!

I've been waiting on surgery for my hearing of 3 years now, I got to top of the list and then Covid happened. I will likely lose all my hearing before I ever see that surgery. Which is obviously terrifying.

Additionally, I've been bleeding everyday since 1st august 2020. I am waiting in surgery to investigate and ablation as I bleed so heavy some days I faint and can't get off the toilet or (on slightly better days) leave the house. I've been waiting on that urgent 13 months. I was told they don't think it's cancer but they won't know anything for sure until they actually see. But my age etc makes it unlikely.

I have no idea what the answer is. Obviously I understand that my cases are not urgent, it's unlikely I will die and other people will, so I'm not a priory, but it's still frustrating when my quality of life diminishes and you struggle daily with your health.

Wish you all the best OP. Hope you get seen soon, must be such an anxious time. I had a higher ca screen with this bleeding and waiting weeks for a scan, which was normal but an anxious wait.

I'm a manager within the NHS and its a total mess. Too many non-clinical staff who don't actually add any value. Locums earning £100,000s more than nhs doctors. Huge long term sickness and non of it is managed properly. Really needs a massive overhall but the nhs is scared to many people and too scared to do it.

@knitnerd90 what our government wants is a for-profit insurance scheme.
But any insurance scheme would mean setting up a whole new layer of bureaucracy to administer it. I also don't want some people getting lesser healthcare because all they can afford is a lower standard policy.

I am sorry that some are having so many problems.
It is not a situation I recognise at all though. My father has had lots of tests and two operations in the last year. I have had tests and have a consultant appointment next week, all within 6 weeks for a non-urgent issue. My DP has had various tests and is waiting for a further test to see what type of operation would be best - a non-urgent medical situation. My work colleague was seen under 2 weeks cancer referral pathway and had tests, no cancer and operation to remove a cyst.

The NHS is falling apart because people keep voting for the Tories. If you want decent properly-funded public services- then stop voting for the people siphoning off as much public money as they can to their rich mates. When will people wake up and realise we have the most incompetent, corrupt and self-serving government in history.

@LyndaLaHughes

The NHS is falling apart because people keep voting for the Tories. If you want decent properly-funded public services- then stop voting for the people siphoning off as much public money as they can to their rich mates. When will people wake up and realise we have the most incompetent, corrupt and self-serving government in history.

THIS!! So much money has already been given by this government to their rich mates and party donors. The corruption is off the scale.

Can you give some examples of how the corruption has directly resulted in losses to the NHS please?

Also not running perfectly in Scotland. I know someone who was told 2 year delay for gall bladder surgery, so he went private.

I'm surprised, I had my gallbladder out in Fife 3 years ago. I waited for 4 weeks after seeing the Consultant. My Mum was the year before me and had to wait 8 weeks.

I can understand things being slower now, but I've never know waiting lists for surgery to be as long that.

@ChocolateDeficitDisorder

Also not running perfectly in Scotland. I know someone who was told 2 year delay for gall bladder surgery, so he went private.

I'm surprised, I had my gallbladder out in Fife 3 years ago. I waited for 4 weeks after seeing the Consultant. My Mum was the year before me and had to wait 8 weeks.

I can understand things being slower now, but I've never know waiting lists for surgery to be as long that.

3 years ago was pre-covid.

It's 2 years for an 'urgent' hip replacement here, Scotland.

@ChocolateDeficitDisorder

Thank fuck I'm in Scotland and we've got a small hope keeping our NHS Tory free.

+1

Hope you’re not where my family lives—their regional hospital is appalling. Three family members have either died, had botched operations or had treatment given in error.