Page 12 | Penelope jackson guilty of murder

Thomasina79 · 2021-10-29T15:51:41+00:00

I’ve been following this news item with interest. She is the woman who stabbed her violent and coercive and bullying husband to death after 20 years of torment. She denied murder, but admitted manslaughter. Am I being unreasonable in thinking the jury should have not found her guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter. Murder carries a life sentence in prison and I cannot see that that there is anything to gain by locking her away.

londonrach · 30/10/2021 07:48

Totally the right verdict. She kept stabbing him when he called 999. Weather or not he was the abuser or she was or bit of both is unknown. He is dead so can't give his side. She was vvvv cold and clinical and sounded proud she killed him. I feel vvv sorry for their poor daughter. She's pregnant so terrible timing for her.

FourteenSixteenTwentyTwo · 30/10/2021 08:13

This is a side tangent, and not necessarily about this case, but I find the ‘lack of evidence about domestic abuse’ comments really troubling.

I don’t think I’m unique in this, but no one person could attest to abuse from my ex as it was always behind closed doors. In fact I’m fairly certain some probably don’t believe that he could have done it. I remember finally telling a couple of my friends after an incident and one of them made a joke how she would probably do something similar if she had to live with me. I didn’t talk about it again until I was ready to leave.

I’m also amazed that a knife to a throat several years ago is discounted as ‘historic’ without a single thought that just because it hasn’t been witnessed since, doesn’t mean it’s not still going on.

I don’t think it’s up to anyone else to suggest this is not murder if that’s what the jury agreed, but nor does a judgement (or even the action of murder) mean domestic abuse did not occur.

Chocolatewheatos · 30/10/2021 08:22

@PlanDeRaccordement

I’m actually glad the verdict was murder.

It’s obvious that she intended to kill him and he was no threat to her when she went back, snatched the phone out of his hand after he’d called 999 for help, told the police not to send an ambulance and calmly stabbed him some more. She stated to police that she was fully aware of what she’d done and if she’d done it right, it would be murder instead of attempted murder. Etc etc.

There was more evidence that she was coercive and bullying than he was according to character witnesses. So I think that whole angle of the defence was poorly thought out.

Thank god someone else has said this. It would be appalling that a woman can just claim to have been abused with no evidence and get off on murder. She stabbed him again while he was on the phone to 999. If the sexes were reversed would anyone have sympathy for a man in that situation?

She doesn't seem in the slightest bit upset at any part of the situation, she seems pretty chuffed with herself

50ShadesOfCatholic · 30/10/2021 08:40

@LizzieSiddal

That's an overreach. The DM did a full blown misogynistic character assassination on the woman knowing that she could never have the means to sue. Doesn't make it true.

And only at the very end did they drop in that the husband's own brother descibed him as arrogant and argumentative and that his own daughter was NC. Also that it was his third marriage.

And only then did they also reveal that Sally Jackson was abandoned by her parents as a baby, did not see them again until she was 12, and raised in group homes. Went on to have two children by age 18. A very difficult and sad childhood and undoubtedly massively contributing factors to this tragedy.

Point is, it's rarely as black and white as onlookers may wish to believe. People are rarely all bad or all good, they are complex and damage runs deep.

LizzieSiddal · 30/10/2021 08:44

50Sades I hadn’t read the stuff about her childhood, and it was The Times I read she said in court she felt she drive her third husband to suicide.

I do agree that people are complex and also feel that these two people were both abusive and actually quite awful people.

Cronezone · 30/10/2021 08:47

In my experience abuse is not always so black and white, for me it would come as a result arguing back, afterwards I would be accused of 'provoking', but as the weaker sex physically i would always back down and be afraid. After years of this happening you do begin to fantasise about what it would be like to fight back. Her words struck a deep chord with me, 'he was an aggressive bully and I just couldn't take it any more'. I have also been through the court system as a victim of violent crime and my attacker was found not guilty by a jury. I am sure this case must strike fear into the hearts of many women currently being abused.

StarfishDish · 30/10/2021 08:48

@99victoria

About 120 women a year in the UK killed by men. You never even hear about them. One case of a woman killing a man and it makes HEADLINE news on the TV! Sums up what our society thinks of women :(

@99victoria You hear about it all of the time!

saraclara · 30/10/2021 08:49

...and that his own daughter was NC...

And yet that same daughter was prepared to stand up in court and give evidence that it was the defendant who was abusive, and that her father was to proud to report it.

x2boys · 30/10/2021 08:59

People need to stop minimising this and making stories up in their minds about what they believe happened ,the Jury believe she murdered him ,despite how people try and twist this

AICM · 30/10/2021 09:02

This thread has given me a truely awful insite into the minds women/MNers.

I don't like what I see.

x2boys · 30/10/2021 09:02

@Cronezone

In my experience abuse is not always so black and white, for me it would come as a result arguing back, afterwards I would be accused of 'provoking', but as the weaker sex physically i would always back down and be afraid. After years of this happening you do begin to fantasise about what it would be like to fight back. Her words struck a deep chord with me, 'he was an aggressive bully and I just couldn't take it any more'. I have also been through the court system as a victim of violent crime and my attacker was found not guilty by a jury. I am sure this case must strike fear into the hearts of many women currently being abused.

She reapetedly stabbed him and said she hoped the police were to late to save him ,she also prevented him from calling 999 and continued stabbing him ,how is that not murder????

AICM · 30/10/2021 09:03

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x2boys · 30/10/2021 09:05

@AICM

This thread has given me a truely awful insite into the minds women/MNers.

I don't like what I see.

Unfortunately I see it all the time on here ,how people can twist this case ,so that a murder victim ,is the aggressor ,and the murderer is the victim ,is typical of this site .

TheAntiGardener · 30/10/2021 09:07

@TaraR2020 - that was a great post. Too many posters coming to black and white conclusions - it’s frightening. The only thing that seems clear about this case to me is that it was complex. And I 100% agree with your comment and oviraptor’s about the video. I don’t understand how so many people can see it and form the instant, unquestioning view that she’s a psychopath or callous. It’s such a strange way to react that it raises questions, surely?

LittleDandelionClock · 30/10/2021 09:07

@99victoria

About 120 women a year in the UK killed by men. You never even hear about them. One case of a woman killing a man and it makes HEADLINE news on the TV! Sums up what our society thinks of women :(

But it made HEADLINE news because it's so rare. Women very rarely hurt men, so yes it WILL make headlines. It's not because society hates women!

I agree with the majority on here, Penelope is a cold blooded murderer, it is NOT manslaughter.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 30/10/2021 09:08

@saraclara

...and that his own daughter was NC...

And yet that same daughter was prepared to stand up in court and give evidence that it was the defendant who was abusive, and that her father was to proud to report it.

Which when you think about it doesn't add up given she wasn't in his life. I can understand why she's want to believe that though.

JustDanceAddict · 30/10/2021 09:08

From the reporting it was totally murder, she killed him (went back when she’d already stabbed him once), in cold blood.
If it had been self-defence it would be more likely manslaughter, but the intent was there.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 30/10/2021 09:09

@LizzieSiddal

50Sades I hadn’t read the stuff about her childhood, and it was The Times I read she said in court she felt she drive her third husband to suicide.

I do agree that people are complex and also feel that these two people were both abusive and actually quite awful people.

Yes it's all very unhappy. Their poor families.

saraclara · 30/10/2021 09:09

And only then did they also reveal that Sally Jackson was abandoned by her parents as a baby, did not see them again until she was 12, and raised in group homes. Went on to have two children by age 18. A very difficult and sad childhood and undoubtedly massively contributing factors to this tragedy.

That's all very sad, but would you accept that as an excuse for murder had the defendant been a man who'd killed his wife?

LittleDandelionClock · 30/10/2021 09:10

Also @99victoria you DO hear about it when women are killed.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 30/10/2021 09:12

@saraclara

And only then did they also reveal that Sally Jackson was abandoned by her parents as a baby, did not see them again until she was 12, and raised in group homes. Went on to have two children by age 18. A very difficult and sad childhood and undoubtedly massively contributing factors to this tragedy.

That's all very sad, but would you accept that as an excuse for murder had the defendant been a man who'd killed his wife?

No that isn't what I said. I was pointing out that the write up was a character assassination rather than a balanced report. It feeds the narrative of good v evil and does nothing to raise awareness of the very troubling issues of neglect, abuse, mental illness and family harm.

KikoLemons · 30/10/2021 09:13

ancientgran thank you for rebutting LittelDandelionClock's absurd depiction of 60 year old women! (Ageist and sexist by the way)

My 60-year old female friends are a bunch of beautiful, strong, vibrant women. They are in a better position than they've ever been to be who they want to be. New homes, new careers, new countries, new partners... whatever they want.

I'm also the mother of a bullied boy. A bit slow, crippling anxiety, eager to please and so deseperate for friends and a girlfriend. It was easy to torment him from when he was five.

He had a partner who took full advantage -so don't say it doesn't happen.

But what happened in this judgment is best understood by those who were part of it.

Felix125 · 30/10/2021 09:14

@99victoria

About 120 women a year in the UK killed by men. You never even hear about them. One case of a woman killing a man and it makes HEADLINE news on the TV! Sums up what our society thinks of women :(

Not strictly true

75% of all murder victims are male. Of remaining 25% female victims - 50% are from a domestic setting.

the 25% equates to the 120 figure quoted

They will be other incidents of of women killing men - they just do not make headline news for some reason.

CounsellorTroi · 30/10/2021 09:18

The majority of murders of both men and women don’t make national headlines.

TheAntiGardener · 30/10/2021 09:24

@AICM

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Some of the issues I have with this thread:

Posters concluding a stranger is a ‘psycho’ based on one video.

Posters who suggest there is no way she can have been abused because victims don’t act like that / she had money so could leave / she wasn’t a pleasant character either.

Posters who come out with simplistic statements - the jury (not unanimously) agreed it was murder in this case, but abuse CAN reduce a murder charge to manslaughter. And it has been a long-running debate as to whether this should be expanded to include abuse victims who did not lose control at the time of killing. This is a complex area.

Posters who are happy to dismiss evidence that suggests she was subjected to abuse herself by saying it happened years ago. Again, this cast-iron certainty in ascribing to the individuals involved the roles of villain and hapless victim.

If that makes me ‘dreadful’, then fine. But I’m not someone who has heard about this case and instantly concluded ‘she’s definitely evil, throw away the key’.