To not understand the benefit system . What is going on ?

[Westnsouthnabout]

I have got totally out of touch with the benefits system.. used to work in public services so did used to be in direct contact with a variety of social issues.
Am aware that sudden breakages like washing machines to be paid for, delays in initial payment and sanctioning can mean a sudden and catastrophic change in cash flow.
However, I have been reading that food banks are utterly stretched and in crisis.
I do understand that many people end up in emeegency sitiations, however, have also been reading that some are actually reliant on regular food banks . Sort of like a weekly shop..
I totally accept that I am out of touch with current situations and would like to kmow( seperate to current rising cost of living etc which i know about) .. what is going on re why so many people are relying on them as a regular source of food when they are in reciept of a regular and mostly preductable income( apart from sanctions etc as i said) in the form of benefits.
I am aware I am ignorant amd want to understand more and perhaps contribute.

Benefits just about cover the basic cost of living if you don't have any debt. In reality, people borrow money to pay for things like broken appliances, transport, kids school uniform, school trip, children's birthday and Christmas presents and end up having to take out (often high cost) loans. The monthly repayments then eat into the money available for essentials and so you borrow more....it's a vicious cycle.

Add to this the way that UC payments work - if you get paid a bit of overtime one months your payment drops the next month. If you get paid twice in one calendar month, this is counted as double. Also people get sanctioned for reasons that are often out of their control.

Using the food shop money often becomes the only way people can pay their bills, so they end up relying on food banks. It's shit.

Someone in a good job could sign up for a two year £50 a month mobile phone contract and twelve months later tie themselves into a Sky contract. They could be three years into paying a five year car loan. All good decisions at the time based on how much they were earning. If they get made redundant a few months later they are still obliged to meet those financial payments but benefits wouldn’t cover a fraction of those outgoings.

That’s ignoring the fact that benefits are designed to pay less than people need to encourage them back to work. It’s really tough for a lot of people

@Ariela

I support a lady who lives on benefits due to health she cannot work. She claims PIP (lower rate) too. She pays everything bit by bit from her benefit money, so when it comes in she pays x onto a card for her mobile y to another card for her TV licence z to another card for her phone bill. The bulk of her money she pays into the slot meter in her flat for electricity. I have checked the amount the landlord has set it at - it's a very modern meter so sets for a % of the standing charge, etc. The Kw rate is set at 15% over the highest rate I could find online. Which is illegal. ....they should charge the actual rate. Now I could report it but she's is petrified of having to move, she's lived there for nigh on 30 years. But the consequence is, as her illness and medication means she feels constantly cold (would wear a jumper and a coat even if it is 20° and sunny) so is spending upwards of £30 a week for a tiny bed sit with separate kitchen. Then her mobile phone, which she daren't pay by standing order in case the benefits pays her incorrectly one month is paid from the money she puts on the mobile card, but that limits the amount of free calls she can make because it's not on a standing order or direct debit She can't walk far - has a stick, luckily there are shops opposite, but they're expensive. No bus she can reach now due to needing the stick, so she has to get a taxi to eg Asda (she can't use computers has to ring me to order online stuff) She has no washing machine and the landlord won't let her have one (despite the other flats in the building having one, he doesn't trust her not to flood the place) , but the launderette is a taxi in another direction. Or she pays for a service wash (they collect and deliver)

So it's not so easy having to live on benefits, it costs you a LOT more than if you weren't at the bottom end of income.

I don't know if this is helpful to the lady but she could swap to giffgaff it goes off top ups and you can get unlimited calls and texts + internet for £10 a month. How awful for her.

@MoodyMooTutu

I work full time, 2 kids and a mortgage. I get less than £100 in UC. I can’t afford to buy my kids presents after bills and essentials this year but my best friend can as she’s able to claim a budgeting advance of £800 to pay for Christmas, she does it every year. It irks me because she’s never worked and lives in council property. I’m in 2 minds whether to get a 2nd job and she’s in two minds whether to knit her kids a quad or electric scooter

Every year? That's impressive. You can only get them if its for emergencies. Maybe her work coach is a pushover.

I'm a low earner and in receipt of tax credits and housing benefit. My rent is paid in part straight to my landlord and I too up the rest myself. I have enough to provide for myself and my children. I work from home (single parent after marriage breakdown) I don't receive maintenance from my ex.

My neighbour is in a similar situation and she has a partner. They are on holiday abroad two times this year, plus holidays in the UK. New car, constantly ungrading their home (I private rent and they are in a council property) whereas, I can't afford to take my child away more than once a year and we have no holidays this year as the children want bikes for Xmas. I buy clothes from Primark or charity shops but always fork out for good shoes. I get second hand branded school uniforms too.

I do hear my neighbours fighting over money issues, debts etc so I suspect that on the outside, they look like they have it all, big fancy new car, holidays, she loves to have her hair and nails done etc. The reality is, big debts and maybe not enough knowledge on how to budget well.

I've tried to avoid getting any kind of finance or loans and just plodding along until I complete my ADI training and earn more than I currently do.

@KrispyKake They mostly resulted in an IUC and a considerable overpayment, which was basically an interest free loan. People don’t want to go to court, not if they can help it.
It was over twenty years ago when I worked for that department.

Moodymoo

You can only claim a bugeting loan if you've already paid some back as you cant get more than the full entitlement which is £812 I believe.

So she's taking a loan as many others do for Christmas. I dont see an issue.

Suzi888 there's data on the % of fraudulent claims as related to the total. And the % is tiny. The number of cases may be large in purely numerical terms, but the data tells us that the absolutely vast majority of benefit claimants are not fraudulent. People just love to believe that they are, because otherwise they might have to look at the society they live in and admit that 'I'm alright Jack' doesn't really cut it as an attitude that makes you a decent human being.

There will always be some who play the system. We're going to have to suck that up, because the alternative is increasing the already punitive attitudes towards claiming in the system, with massive collateral damage.

For those who are affected by the £20 uplift going, councils have been awarded more discretionary funds to compensate, it probably won’t be advertised.
Uniform grants are still available too (in Wales).

@wewereliars spot on. I saw far too much piss taking, so I left. Hand on heart I didn’t know anyone that actually enjoyed the job or felt a sense they were genuinely ‘helping’ anyone.

I can recall going to Africa and one of the locals asking what I did, he was truly in awe that such a thing existed and I thought to myself, little do you know….. !

@pointythings

Suzi888 there's data on the % of fraudulent claims as related to the total. And the % is tiny. The number of cases may be large in purely numerical terms, but the data tells us that the absolutely vast majority of benefit claimants are not fraudulent. People just love to believe that they are, because otherwise they might have to look at the society they live in and admit that 'I'm alright Jack' doesn't really cut it as an attitude that makes you a decent human being.

There will always be some who play the system. We're going to have to suck that up, because the alternative is increasing the already punitive attitudes towards claiming in the system, with massive collateral damage.

@pointythings as explained above, I worked in benefits and in fraud. Stats…. At what point is a fraudulent claim counted as fraud? When it gets to court? When someone admits it, so it never gets to court and never gets counted….

Well Suzi888 that says it all doesn't it. People should be grateful because the state has not pauperised them to the levels of a 3rd world country.

@Suzi888 so what you're actually saying is you suspected they were fraudulent claims but there was no proof. So just your personal judgement. No fucking wonder its so hard to claim anything with judgey fuckers like you working for them. You're a tories dream.

What relevance does your twenty year old knowledge have to today @Suzi88?

Suzi88 so your 20 year old anecdata is more valid than current statistics. Riiiiight.

Also - what happened to innocent until proven guilty? I'm glad you don't work in the benefits system any more.

@stingofthebutterfly

Your age is a factor as well. If you're under 25 you get less than an over 25 year old. Last time I checked, housing, bills and food cost the same whatever your age.

This is true.

[quote HerRoyalWitchyness]@Suzi888 so what you're actually saying is you suspected they were fraudulent claims but there was no proof. So just your personal judgement. No fucking wonder its so hard to claim anything with judgey fuckers like you working for them. You're a tories dream.[/quote]
Obviously not @HerRoyalWitchyness. It was a job I was paid to do based on data from various sources, referrals from the public and so on. We also carried out surveillance. Do you think everyone tells the truth do you or that the Government pays people to plant evidence? Jesus.
Or have you tried to claim something and been turned down and want to take it out on me. I’m not judgey, I’m inquisitive and I enjoyed getting to the bottom of things, catching people out.

I vote Labour. FFS. Not that has anything to do with anything.

@corrbliney it’s a public forum. I’m entitled to post. You may not agree with it, but there ya go. Please do carry on believing what you wish, it doesn’t affect me and I couldn’t care less. Why are you so irate?
@wewereliars pretty weak.

I won’t be back, this thread will probably be taken down soon as it’s been derailed.

Enjoy your evening it’s been a lively debate.

Or have you tried to claim something and been turned down
Don't be so ridiculous. I'm so disabled I got pip without having to appeal which as anyone who knows that process knows that's not always the case.

Of course you're judgey, it comes across in all of your posts and who you vote for doesn't matter the fact remains the tories would love you. Thank fuck you don't work in benefits anymore.

Of course there will be people who claim fraudulently. And I happen to know someone on benefits who is lovely but completely unable to budget. But so what. At the end of the day, people should not be left to starve, go hungry or unable to afford adequate housing. We are not a third world country, we are a wealthy developed country and it is an absolute disgrace that food banks are required in the first place. The money is there when the government wants it to be (Track and Trace is an excellent example) so why can’t it be used to support people in need?

While we are on the subject I think the benefits cap is a disgrace too. Children should never be left to go without basic necessities, however feckless their parents are.

@Willyoujustbequiet my DS is awaiting an assessment too. It's been months. He's fortunate to live with me and not need to pay a landlord or worry about eating as I will always see him right.

Truth hurts Suzi888 seems your benefit bashing early evening enjoyment didn't go to plan.

Private rents is the biggest one

My Dad’s on basic state pension and also gets pension tax credit to help with rent, which I believe is more then UC.

When he was in a shoddy private rental he didn’t have enough money to heat and eat because the rent was more then the housing portion of his benefits despite being the cheapest he could find and be accepted for (a whole other issue for those on benefits) and the flat had a crap heating system with no insulation or double glazing.

Now he’s in a housing association one it costs a fraction to heat, his rent is set at the housing portion of his benefits so no tipping up, and he has enough for everything he needs plus a bit extra to put towards longer term things

As I said this is getting more the UC and without the danger of sanctions or having to repay the loan for the waiting period which seems to be designed to ensure that people can’t budget as much as they all bang on about ‘if only they budgeted’…

When I first became a single parent, regularly had times when I had to choose between paying the rent, putting money on the gas & electric or eating. There weren't any foodbanks to my knowledge at that time,
I had to resort to shopping at Farmfoods & had to have payments deducted from my benefits to pay my utility bills because I was in debt & was in danger of having my supplies cut off. I was threatened with being evicted several times & the council had a court order that meant if I missed a further rent payment they could evict me straight away. I regularly had bailiffs knocking at my door & I had to train my 7 year old to not answer the door & made a game of sitting on the stairs until they had gone away. Thankfully those days are gone now, my rent & utilities are several months in credit now, but I feel for families who are going through the same thing, there should be more help available & I can understand the despair that many are feeling with the £20 uplift being withdrawn from Universal Credit.

Friend who lives alone has just lost their job - they have no savings and plenty of debt - which when in work are managing to pay
On UC they get £75 a week - their rent is over the local housing allowance so they have to pay £25 a week towards that
Out of the £50 left they can afford council tax, water rates, gas and electricity,
That leaves them nil
So NO food, unable to pay phone or internet (essential these days as benefits are done online) nearly impossible to get a job without being able to be contactable etc
Friend cannot afford car insurance payments, debt payments, to repair or replace anything
Hope that helps you understand

It's not just the benefit system, on the estate I used to live on the doorstep money lenders like Shopacheck & Provident used to prey on the poor & vulnerable making it sound so easy to borrow money & get in to debt, saying they could put £300 in your hand now & you only had to pay back £15 a week, the interest rates were as high as 80%, then when you had nearly paid back one loan they would be saying they could offer you £500 to help you get through Christmas, you still owed £120 from your last loan which meant you owed £620 plus interest, you were now paying back £35 a week, every Thursday you watched the collector going from door to door, eventually you get to the stage you couldn't afford to pay & spent every Thursday yet again hiding & not answering the door.

I think people are mislead by the benefits programmes on TV. These people are made to look stupid example one woman says I can't afford to eat this week I will nip food bank after having her nails done. When everyone would be thinking spend your money on food for your children not on your nails. In reality most people on benefits don't have luxuries I haven't had a hair cut in 10 years because if I had to spent £25 on it that could be used on food or electricity.
Not everyone on benefits are scroungers sometimes it's circumstances.

Sal