To think monogamy is a bit unnatural??

[Glassofshloer]

A few years ago I had a conversation with a friend about cheating which popped into my head reading some of the ‘OW/husband cheated’ threads on here.

She said she and her DP had mutually agreed that they could sleep with other people if they wanted to, provided they used a condom and didn’t tell the other one. I don’t think she meant a proper affair, just ONS type encounters.

Reading a lot of the infidelity threads on here, AIBU to think the rigid norms of monogamy are ridiculous and maybe my friend has it right?

I know most people will say ‘if you can’t stay faithful don’t have a LTR’ but I don’t think that’s quite fair given society makes it basically impossible to settle down and have a family without one. And very few people would commit to somebody who wants an open marriage.

Basically what I’m saying is are we trying to fight our instincts when it comes to monogamy, and is it worth it given so many people seem to cheat anyway? Are we all holding ourselves to impossible standards?

Very prepared to be flamed & I expect I will be!

I don't think there's much "natural" about the way that most people live (however you're defining natural).
Non-monogamy is sort of impractical for the way we live. As people here like to remind men, condoms aren't fool-proof.

How would you feel if, despite using a condom, your boyfriend/husband got another woman pregnant and inextricably tied himself to her for the rest of your lives? What if he did that with multiple women?
I suspect most women would find that possibility pretty unappealing and not worth the ability to have sex with strangers at the drop of a hat.

I agree with you. Clearly monogamy doesn't agree with much of society considering the huge numbers of affairs.

I think people also settle too easy because there is this cultural timeline we are supposed to follow- be together a few years, buy a house, get engaged, have children. If you do any of it in the 'wrong' order, or don't do any of it then you are judged for all kinds of reasons.

If people did this a lot less, I think society would benefit. More people need to really know themselves before choosing someone to marry. I learnt that first hand (divorced).

Funny op I was thinking this last night when watching the Tudors. My 2p is some people can and do only want one partner and some people want multiple partners. I think it's down to each individuals natural instincts/make up.

My 2p is some people can and do only want one partner and some people want multiple partners. I think it's down to each individuals natural instincts/make up.
I agree.
With most things depending on your preference it is difficult to see how one can enjoy one life partner if you enjoy multiple partners and vice versa.

Been with dh about 40 years and both have neither strayed.
Life hasn't been easy at times either. But thats the way it is.

I'm not sure the majority of ppl want an open relationship OP.....but I'm sure some do so the thing to do is find someone who wants what you want. I agree with PPs upthread who said the most important thing is not to lie or pretend you want monogamy when you don't as it's not fair on your partner. I disagree that it's unnatural, I think I it just doesn't work for some ppl.

Monogamy serves a societal function for the emotional and fiscal wellbeing of the unit that made up the 'Family'.
Any large-scale deviations away from the 'Ideal', have fiscal and emotional costs across the spectrum of society.

I was extremely promiscuous port divorce however experience tells me it is possible to have lusty, earth-shattering sex with one partner.

1. Sex needs to be a priority.
2. Physical and emotional connection is paramount.

In my experience, a lot of people are just don't have the physical and emotional confidence to actually enjoy sex. Sleeping with other people isn't the answer, it's a short-term chemical fix.

In my experience it’s the newness of having sex with another person you don’t know how good it will be

Having fantastic sex with one partner often doesn’t stop people wanting to have sex with others

We like to think it does and for some it will bit plenty of people are utterly baffled to find out their partner has cheated as their sex life was great

I think women feel that pressure the keep the sex exciting hence the array of articles, outfits, toys that are marketed towards women

@BiLuminous

I agree with you. Clearly monogamy doesn't agree with much of society considering the huge numbers of affairs.

I think people also settle too easy because there is this cultural timeline we are supposed to follow- be together a few years, buy a house, get engaged, have children. If you do any of it in the 'wrong' order, or don't do any of it then you are judged for all kinds of reasons.

If people did this a lot less, I think society would benefit. More people need to really know themselves before choosing someone to marry. I learnt that first hand (divorced).

Totally agree with this and this is the heart of the problem in my opinion.

Monogamy only works when you are emotionally ready for it. A lot of people get pushed into monogamous situations before they are ready (due to societal pressure, the need to pool money for a mortgage, the desire to have kids before their biological window closes etc). Then they find after a few years the emotional reality catches up with them and they are locked into a relationship which is manifestly unsuitable for them.

The reality is that a lot of people need to get to know themselves properly as an adult before they are emotionally ready to share their lives with another adult. So entering into a contract to maintain lifelong monogamy when you're in your 20s just won't work for a lot of people.

I said this upthread but I think the single most important thing you can do to try to find a durable relationship is not settle down too early. There are exceptions to this rule and some people make this work but the majority of people change so much between the ages of 20 and 50 that they just can't expect to be happy with the same person. If you choose a life partner when you're a bit older, have some financial security and have a bit of experience under your belt you have a much better shot at making the right decisions and having more durable relationships.

I would be horrified if my DD announced that she was marrying or opting for a committed LTR in her 20s.

@OhWhyNot

In my experience it’s the newness of having sex with another person you don’t know how good it will be

Having fantastic sex with one partner often doesn’t stop people wanting to have sex with others

We like to think it does and for some it will bit plenty of people are utterly baffled to find out their partner has cheated as their sex life was great

I think women feel that pressure the keep the sex exciting hence the array of articles, outfits, toys that are marketed towards women

What is great sex? Weeks locked in a room experimenting, chemical sex (speed, GHB, ecstasy, amphetamine stimulants), 1 orgasm, multiple orgasms, 20-30 orgasms.

Me and a friend still married, 20plus yrs, regular sex 5 plus times weekly were doing an informal survey, a significant majority of couples are having hardly any sex and when they do its rubbish.
Makes one wonder what the problem is?

It can be a number of things

Falling out of love
Time
No longer feeling attractive or attracted to partner
Some people just don’t want sex that much they have had great sex know what it’s about but don’t feel a need to have sex that often to feel connected to their partner

I’m someone who falls into it’s irrelevant how great my sex is with my partner I can be madly in love the desire for the newness of someone else is still there (not in the first few months) I know many people feel the same (no I have not always acted on it) it’s just the way some people are. Impersonally need some connection with them in some way (a feeling of mutual attraction) I think this is where men are usually different (why we have so many sex workers)

And what is great sex

Depends on the partner and circumstances

Affair sex a very frowned upon topic (understandably) but when people are talking honestly this I have heard so many times

a significant majority of couples are having hardly any sex and when they do its rubbish

I do find it quite bizarre that a lot of women (and it is isually women) seem to think that its a reasonable expectation to have a long term monogamous relationship with someone with whom you're having very little or no sex.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying women need to have sex they don't want to keep their partners happy: everyone has an absolute right not to have sex. I just question why you would want to remain in a long term cohabiting partnership with someone if you had no desire to have sex with them any more.

You see this happen countless times on here where a man cheats and a woman who by her own admission has completely lost any desire for sex expresses confusion about it. Or a poster claims that they are blissfully happy living in a non-sexual relationship. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Cohabitation is so bloody difficult in even the best relationships. Sex isn't essential but it is part of the "glue" that keeps couples together and gets them past the tough stuff. Aside from rearing children together I can't understand why you would want to remain notionally monogamous with someone who you had no sexual interest in. If sex is no longer important to you, have the courage of your convictions and be single, rather than clinging to a normative veneer of monogamy.

Couldn’t agree more @thepeopleversuswork

Good post.

@thepeopleversuswork

a significant majority of couples are having hardly any sex and when they do its rubbish

I do find it quite bizarre that a lot of women (and it is isually women) seem to think that its a reasonable expectation to have a long term monogamous relationship with someone with whom you're having very little or no sex.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying women need to have sex they don't want to keep their partners happy: everyone has an absolute right not to have sex. I just question why you would want to remain in a long term cohabiting partnership with someone if you had no desire to have sex with them any more.

You see this happen countless times on here where a man cheats and a woman who by her own admission has completely lost any desire for sex expresses confusion about it. Or a poster claims that they are blissfully happy living in a non-sexual relationship. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Cohabitation is so bloody difficult in even the best relationships. Sex isn't essential but it is part of the "glue" that keeps couples together and gets them past the tough stuff. Aside from rearing children together I can't understand why you would want to remain notionally monogamous with someone who you had no sexual interest in. If sex is no longer important to you, have the courage of your convictions and be single, rather than clinging to a normative veneer of monogamy.

👏👏👏

@LuliaMariella

Given that basically every society in the world upholds some form of life-long marriage, I would say that monogamy is "natural" in the sense that it is universally recognised as a good thing.

Of course, humans are selfish and corrupt, so bad things feel natural to us. That doesn't mean they are good.

You're conflating social institutions designed for control and social and financial stability with nature/ biology. The two allign in some respects and differ in others, but the existence of one isn't a way to disprove the other.

These people have a lot to teach us IMO.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/01/the-kingdom-of-women-the-tibetan-tribe-where-a-man-is-never-the-boss

Best of both worlds: family stability, "a village to raise a child", social cohesion and sexual/ emotional relationships that will only persist if both parties really want them to (not for financial/ social/ guilt reasons). Freedom and no judgement on private lives (manogamous or not) and still a clear and supportive family framework for practical purposes.

@BiLuminous

I agree with you. Clearly monogamy doesn't agree with much of society considering the huge numbers of affairs.

I think people also settle too easy because there is this cultural timeline we are supposed to follow- be together a few years, buy a house, get engaged, have children. If you do any of it in the 'wrong' order, or don't do any of it then you are judged for all kinds of reasons.

If people did this a lot less, I think society would benefit. More people need to really know themselves before choosing someone to marry. I learnt that first hand (divorced).

I think this is it.

I admit I roll my eyes a bit when I see these threads, because I feel that some people rail against monogamy not because there's something wrong with monogamy, but that they've got some emotional baggage that means they're crap at relationships, monogamous or otherwise.

But I agree that you can separate it out into different groups:

• serial monogamists
• have fun then settle down monogamists
• people who dip in and out of monogamy/long and short term relationships...
• polygamy

... Etc

But society pushes people down a single track that doesn't suit everybody. Mind you, that's true of a lot of things. Jobs/careers especially. E.g.,you ought to be progressing, you ought to stick in the path set by your choices at 18.

And I say that as a happy monogamist. Three quarters of the threads on AIBU could be solved by young women making rational, reflective choices about what they want and not marrying the first man who ticks the societal boxes movies told them were right.

I said this upthread but I think the single most important thing you can do to try to find a durable relationship is not settle down too early.... I would be horrified if my DD announced that she was marrying or opting for a committed LTR in her 20s.

The problem is, it isn't easy to just meet someone exactly when you want, especially if you want children. As a women, if you meet someone you get along with at 25, should you dump them because it's "too early", stay single until 35, then start looking.

Not saying you are on the shelf at 35 or anything, but you have to be realistic. Unlike men, women don't have the option of waiting until 40-45, then declaring they want a family and have younger, fertile partners lining up.

[quote TheEvilPea]These people have a lot to teach us IMO.

[[https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/01/the-kingdom-of-women-the-tibetan-tribe-where-a-man-is-never-the-boss]][/quote]
The Mosuo get trotted out in every conversation like this. The reason why is that there aren't many other examples to choose from.
There's something of "The Noble Savage" in it. I'm sure their method of organising society has its own issues that documentarians with an agenda are apt to bursh over (or just not notice). Even moreso when you try to scale up these ideas to a society like ours.

@Wotsitsits

I find those who want to shag around after becoming married and having kids are the ones who didn't do it when they were younger and somehow get it into their head that they've missed out on it. Usually idealising the idea of course.

I shagged around loads in my 20s. Had loads of mind blowing sex. Met DH, had loads of amazing sex with him too. Now married with 2 DC and we do it one a month if we're lucky.

My take on that is, so what? There's more to life than shagging. I think it's the mark of a mature and responsible adult to realise that. It's just not currently fashionable

I'm the same. I used to be obsessed with sex in my 20s but now it's not even in my top 10 list of priorities. I still enjoy it with DH but there's a lot more to our relationship.

I think I'm a serial monogamist I have good sex for 2-3 years with the same person then get bored . I can't orgasm from ONS or with someone I don't know very well so that's out it would be better to sit home with a vibrator . My OH isn't affectionate at all when we split for 6 months and I had a fling , I met someone very affectionate it was hard to give that up.

I don't believe in 2nd families or blended families especially when I look at the step parenting board it just looks like a cluster fuck and in the majority of cases the 1st set of children miss out. So I will stay in my marriage even if I don't feel 100 percent sexually fulfilled I don't believe I ever will feel 100 percent sexually fulfilled unless I was bouncing from partner to partner and my DD doesn't deserve that.

It’s person specific.
I love my husband and couldn’t stand the thought of him having sex with someone else. I would be totally jealous and disgusted. If I’m not enough he can go elsewhere!

I agree that the "appeal to nature" for justification is bogus. My poly relationships aren't any more natural and organic than a traditional marriage, I think.

After all, we've moved on from many of the practices favoured by our cave-dwelling ancestors, why should our love lives be any different? I don't eat raw mammoth, either!

Sadly a lot of the poly community trots the "natural" argument out to imply that mono couples are an affront to Mother Nature, which of course they're not.

I can understand the impulse for poly people to be defensive in this way though, considering the judgement they get.