To think monogamy is a bit unnatural??

[Glassofshloer]

A few years ago I had a conversation with a friend about cheating which popped into my head reading some of the ‘OW/husband cheated’ threads on here.

She said she and her DP had mutually agreed that they could sleep with other people if they wanted to, provided they used a condom and didn’t tell the other one. I don’t think she meant a proper affair, just ONS type encounters.

Reading a lot of the infidelity threads on here, AIBU to think the rigid norms of monogamy are ridiculous and maybe my friend has it right?

I know most people will say ‘if you can’t stay faithful don’t have a LTR’ but I don’t think that’s quite fair given society makes it basically impossible to settle down and have a family without one. And very few people would commit to somebody who wants an open marriage.

Basically what I’m saying is are we trying to fight our instincts when it comes to monogamy, and is it worth it given so many people seem to cheat anyway? Are we all holding ourselves to impossible standards?

Very prepared to be flamed & I expect I will be!

@Strangevipers you say it sets us apart from most animals, but what does that actually mean in the context of this discussion? Why does it make it good/bad?

I think people are free to make whatever agreements within their relationships as they are both happy with. I have no problem with open or poly relationships.

But having a single partner feels natural to me.

Open marriages often end up with one running off with someone else anyway

I know a couple who got together as the male half was married but they used to have threesomes, however he fell for one of the women and they have been married 10 years now.

I have been married 11 years and been with DH and although we still fancy eachother and shag etc tbh I miss the early days. Lets face it there is nothing like the excitement of shagging someone for the first time and all the crazy lust stuff (although it can be emotionally exhausting too). But I trade that off for security and the long term deep love I have for him and everything we have together

meant to say been with DH 14 years

It's natural for me. I have zero desire for anyone else other than my DH. It may not be natural for some though. One of my best friends has never been able to stay faithful from we were teens and she's 40 now. Each to their own.

I'm very happy "doing monogamy" and hopefully my DH is too. I would never accept a situation like your friends, I'd rather be single

I think part of the difficulty about monogamy is that it has become the cornerstone of economic life for the family.

So people tend to enmesh themselves financially because they are enmeshed emotionally or sexually. It then becomes quite difficult to separate what you want emotionally/sexually from what you want or need financially because its usually in your economic interests to remain together long beyond the point where it has ceased to be in your emotional or sexual interests. This is why religion, society and many governments have promoted marriage - because its the most economically efficient way to run a relationship with children. But it doesn't mean its what's best for the couple.

I have often said that I think the solution to this is for people in relationships to remain as financially separate as they can afford to do so for as long as they can (clearly this is more difficult where they have children but even then its a good aspiration). I think women should absolutely strive to not become dependent on their male partners as far as possible because the dependency creates an incentive to remain with someone which often over-rides our own best interests. And this is why I think by and large being a SAHM, while it may be superficially seductive for a time, is almost always a bad idea.

Separating from a long relationship is rarely easy but its made infinitely harder by the mess of financial disentangling and this I think massively blinkers women in particular to feel that its in their interests to remain monogamous when often their interests would be better served by not being so.

I think we would find it easier to be honest about what we really need from our relationships if we weren't massively financially incentivised to stay in them. It's very hard to tell often if monogamy is what you actually want or just what is in the best interests of your family's financial stability.

I must be unnatural then as I’ve been single for 5 years and haven’t slept with anyone in that time I have no desire to sleep with random people

I don't think monogamy is natural, no. I think that throughout history this has been recognised and men have been allowed and encouraged to have extramarital relations. Marriage (and female monogamy) has mostly been about power, control and influence.

I personally wouldn't want an open relationship but I'd be happy with an arrangement like your friend.

I dabbled with polyamory for a while and knew a lot of non monogamous people- there are a few people who genuinely seem to suit it and be happy but the majority seemed to me to be struggling with it. Someone is jealous, someone is more into it than their partner (usually a man), someone starts developing stronger feelings for a secondary partner and prioritising them over other people, etc etc. It gets really messy and I’m not sure it’s anymore “natural” than monogamy. Humans are humans and they fuck up no matter what.

@riotlady

I dabbled with polyamory for a while and knew a lot of non monogamous people- there are a few people who genuinely seem to suit it and be happy but the majority seemed to me to be struggling with it. Someone is jealous, someone is more into it than their partner (usually a man), someone starts developing stronger feelings for a secondary partner and prioritising them over other people, etc etc. It gets really messy and I’m not sure it’s anymore “natural” than monogamy. Humans are humans and they fuck up no matter what.

I don't know anyone in real (or If I do they've not made it known!) who are in open relationships but I would have thought what you said to be exactly the case, even looking on here on threads about FWB set ups, someone almost always starts wanting more than just the sex.

I'm a live and live kind of person and I'm sure there are some people it suits and that's fine. But me personally it wouldn't and like I said earlier I'd rather be single than just accept my DH sleeping with other women

I don't know, even when I was very sexually active in my early 20s, going out with more than one person at a time was confusing and weird. In my 40s I've very little sex drive at all and I wonder who could be arsed with having an additional sexual partner, or an affair or any of that. Who on earth has the time or the energy?

There is a phrase 'monogamy protects men from polygamy' as historically polyandry meant a small proportion of powerful men having several female partners and depriving a larger proportion of men from having any partners.

Whilst the male to female ratio remains roughly 50:50 then monogamy will remain the norm.

"Natural" behaviour is just behaviour typical of a particular species. We've already seen examples that show that 'natural' isn't synonymous with 'good'

Human beings in the majority of cultures typically view monogamous relationships as a norm or ideal.

Shag who you want, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to try to bolster your own view or desire by saying what the majority of other humans do or aspire to is 'unnatural'. Especially as the word 'natural' is pretty meaningless.

I'm a live and live kind of person and I'm sure there are some people it suits and that's fine. But me personally it wouldn't and like I said earlier I'd rather be single than just accept my DH sleeping with other women

Me too. I couldn't be arsed staying with someone who was sleeping with other people, in large part because I'd just cease to find them sexually attractive.

I think men in general find it easier to compartmentalise this and could find emotional and sexual space for two or more women. Some women can do this but they are in the minority. I have always suspected polyamory to be largely driven by men and gone along with by women but maybe that's my bias.

It doesn't feel like rigid social norm for me, I've no interest in having sex with another man.

I had some fun sleeping around but it was often disappointing.

That is not to say that either of us would never fall for someone and move on.

The thought of having random one night stands with loads of different men makes me feel a bit sick tbh, I imagine it’s mostly men that want this set up.

@thepeopleversuswork

I'm a live and live kind of person and I'm sure there are some people it suits and that's fine. But me personally it wouldn't and like I said earlier I'd rather be single than just accept my DH sleeping with other women

Me too. I couldn't be arsed staying with someone who was sleeping with other people, in large part because I'd just cease to find them sexually attractive.

I think men in general find it easier to compartmentalise this and could find emotional and sexual space for two or more women. Some women can do this but they are in the minority. I have always suspected polyamory to be largely driven by men and gone along with by women but maybe that's my bias.

And I wonder would the men even be "equally happy" for their wife to sleep with other men or would he assume she'd still only be faithful to him. Double standards are also a big thing when it comes to men sleeping around from my experience (again I'm sure some men would be fine with it but from previous conversations experiences there are a lot of men who think it's unnatural for men to be monogamous but think women should be)

I dont know of its natural for all humans or not.
For me, theres no other way at the moment. Before i met DP i was very young and didnt really have any long relationships. I got bored quickly, loved flirting and the attention that came with it and always had an eye out for a potential next boyfriend. I cheated several times.
Everything changed when i met DP. We have been together for 16 years now. Ive never cheated or even been interested in anyone else.
I think for me it was a mix of growing up and meeting the right person. So if DP cheated on me it would feel like im not “his” person. And i dont think i could stay together in that case. I also could never be in an open relationship with him. I used to do that when i was young and i really didnt mind or care. With DH i do care and i get jealous. With my previous boyfriends i never got jealous, but honestly i also couldnt care less if we broke up or not.

I guess for me it just means if DP wanted an open relationship it would feel like he doesnt love me enough to be with just me.

I am always monogomous in long term relationships but absolutely miss casual sex. If I was with someone who didn't mind a bit of casual shagging on the side that would be my ideal. I am very happy with my partner of ten years and love his company but I still find myself attracted to other people and feel a bit sad I can only sleep with one person. Sex and love are different beasts as far as I am concerned.

@AryaStarkWolf

Yep. It's a massive double standard. How many men historically who were merrily cheating left, right and centre would have tolerated "polyamory" from their wives and continued to support them financially?

It's always tended to be in women's interests to go along with this because they needed to keep their husband on side to support them. So they would bite their tongue and tolerate his infidelity but woe betide if they were to take a lover themselves.

I think in the vast majority of cases polyamory is a compromise designed to save failing relationships when both partners would be better off separated but can't face the financial upheaval involved. Which is all the more reason not to merge finances if you can possibly avoid it.

It’s definitely something I’ve thought about before. We are ultimately animals after all. You only have to at the majority of animals to see that it’s society not instinct that makes it the ‘norm’ but that then where do you stop, it’s quite normal for some male animals to just jump on a female to meet their needs.

@mojojoj

Marriage is an institution,a construct of society

That's true but OP is talking about monogamy specifically, rather than necessarily marriage.

Monogamy isn't 'unnatural' or a construct of society. 90 percent of bird species mate for life and many mammals too. eg. gibbons, wolves, beavers etc. etc.

In any case, 'it's natural' is not necessarily the best argument for something. There are so many things that are 'just a social construct' that I and most people genuinely prefer to do, because humans are social animals and it is far easier to do what everyone else does (that's not a bad thing). I am very happy to be monogamous. I have no idea if this is something naturally programmed in to me or if I am following social norms. Does it really make a difference why?

‘ Open marriages/LTRs rarely work out. One partner usually wants it more than the other.’

Heartily disagree- I know quite a few couples with ‘understandings’ from the do it, be, safe, don’t tell me to those in poly relationships. And they all seem to be just fine, at least 2 couples I know have reached the almost 30 year together mark.
Different strokes etc

Marriage is an institution,a construct of society

Yes but its first and foremost a financial construct: its designed to protect property and inheritance, to protect female chastity and to ensure that there is adequate financial support to raise children when the woman is economically inactive.

It has served a very useful purpose over the years as a financial unit of society but that doesn't mean its either emotionally "natural" or emotionally beneficial. In many cases its not and I think it would be much easier to establish whether a monogamous relationship was genuinely what we wanted without the financial baggage of marriage, which massively incentivises people to remain.