To find this behaviour utterly illogical?

[DrSeuss]

Surely if you ban your child from having anything to do with Harry Potter to the extent that they can’t attend a Hogwarts themed birthday party and don’t allow them to celebrate Halloween at all, all on the grounds that the Bible forbids magic and witchcraft, you can’t then allow the child free access to “The Wizard of Oz” or hold a Peter Pan themed party or one with an Elsa from Frozen in costume? The book of Deuteronomy does indeed forbid magic according to Google. I find it firstly nonsensical and also a nightmare to navigate as the parent of such a child’s friend. Newest one is that David Walliams books are OK except for “The Demon Dentist “. I have no issue with people believing whatever makes them happy and would describe myself as having a Christian faith ( not very observant but still familiar with all the teachings of the C of E). The parents are C of E too but of a very different type to either my family or the Anglican school where I work, both being pretty accepting of all shades of belief. It’s quite tricky when my daughter and theirs want to spend time together. Something such as a simple cinema visit becomes so complicated when a film which has a suitable certificate for primary age children must still be pre approved in case it contains a forbidden theme. This is made even harder when Disney magic is deemed fine but others may not be.
Ideally, I would like someone with greater theological knowledge than me or who also believes that portrayals of magic in popular culture are wrong to help me understand and maybe give me some guidelines. I did once try asking why Disney was fine but Harry Potter wasn’t but the mother didn’t really answer me, just said that’s how it is. I asked the child as gently as possible if she was aware of why she can watch the witches in Oz but she said quite frankly that she didn’t know.

I am frustrated by the woolliness of their arguments and the arbitrary nature of decisions but this girl is a good friend of my daughter’s and is a pleasant child so I persevere.

I really hope someone can advise me.

Sorry, but pandering to these ridiculous people is a fool's game. My daughter would have to find another friend because there is no way I am changing my values and lifestyle to accommodate anyone's religious nonsense and hypocrisy.

Aquamarine, I would but she would be heartbroken as she gets very attached to people, just like her mum. The problem may cease to be at the end of the academic year when they are going to different secondary schools.

It sounds absolutely ridiculous.
You must have a lot of patience OP because I couldn't cope with the hypocrisy of them.

We had a very religious family in our school and the kids weren't allowed to use the computer or do anything to do with dinosaurs. The little boy said that the parents crossed out anything to do with dinosaurs as they didn't exist.

there is no way I am changing my values and lifestyle to accommodate anyone's religious nonsense
Think that's what they're doing too, except for them, it's 'non-religious nonsense'.

and hypocrisy.
Could you be the hypocritical one here? There are doing the same as you would do and somehow they're wrong? Just a thought.

I do agree that once it becomes such a drag, I'd end it. If not, then continue to work around it. I'm non-religious BTW. What I think could make one "better" than the other is how lighthearted one is and how gory or "dark", the other is. I'm just speculating.

Right on, I work in SEN, exteme patience comes as standard! I also work with kids with ASD some of the time. the very fixed mindset and the idea that "it has to be that way because I want it like that" is sometimes a little familiar.

That poor kid....

I find it all very odd. I understand that believing in witches and so on is at odds with Christian (and most other) religious beliefs. But Harry Potter is a STORY. No one believes it’s true. Halloween is just a bit of fun, not devil worship (though to be fair, most c of e schools and churches take issue with celebrating Halloween). A friend of a friend apparently won’t even let the children have fairy tales in the house!

I guess just state what you are doing and if the child isn’t allowed to do it, she misses out. I suspect she will decide for herself soon what she thinks of it all, sounds like she’s getting to that age and doesn’t understand why her parents forbid things which suggests she might not carry on much longer.

I'm not sure why this child's parents in particular believe what they do - however there's a huge debate about Harry Potter in religious circles! Some people think it has pagan / wican references (witches / wizards / the occult) and in the Bible there are passages about not being around magic / sorcerers etc which is quite the blow for the magical world of Hogwarts! If they're more into the literal interpretations of the bible, this may be where they're coming from. Fantasy as a genre (make believe) is different to witches / wizards / occult. So some Disney might be acceptable to them, as some fantasy might be!

The difference as I've had it explained to me - for example in lord of the rings, the magic is make believe (dragons, warlocks, magic rings etc) and not based in any sort of fact. Harry Potter magic is based on actual things (herbology - plants, potions - chemistry, astronomy - the stars etc) so has links to the real world which might cause children to be "led astray" in to practicing in the ways of the occult.

Personally, if the only concessions are not watching films the parents don't approve of (which lots of families have rules about!) then it doesn't seem too much of a stretch for them to be friends and do activities! I'm sure trips with your daughter are a highlight for her 😊

My DC had friends similar to this, but not quite as bad. There were 3 siblings. No harry potter for instance. They were allowed to do halloween including trick or treating but couldn't dress as anything witchcrafty. So just went as superheroes.
Which is still fictitious, no? I couldn't understand why a fake witch was worse than a fake ironman, but I just let them crack on with it.

I am confused why you care so much. If they say no to the movie you have suggested for a cinema trip, explain this to your child and go without their child.

Nobody here will have the answers, it's in those people's heads. They clearly can't or don't want to explain the consistencies.

I had a JW mum friend. Her DD went to a different school so wasn't a close friend of my DD but we'd all meet up on Saturdays.
In the end I stopped meeting up with her as I felt I was watching what I was saying all the time and watching what my DD said Incase we offended them. It was walking on eggshells and it wasn't enjoyable.
I'm wondering how this girl's mum views the relationship between your daughters as in my experience people with such views like to keep a tight reign on 'friendships' as they don't want to associate too much with those who don't have the same beliefs. Especially young impressionable children.

I’d also be quite confused by this but I’d stay out of it and just clarify X film and book is okay (to mum/dad) if you think a play date would expose this friend to them while visiting your home. To be honest, we all do things sometimes that doesn’t make much sense? Like I allow YouTube but not tiktok with the appropriate settings. Things slip through the net on YouTube as well sometimes but I’ve heard horror stories (and seen for myself), worse things on Tiktok. My kids my rules surely? So just smile and agree to disagree.

It sounds like the parents haven’t thought out their theological position properly or logically and are applying it randomly and inconsistently.
My own minister would have no problem with kids enjoying fairy tales, witches in films, etc. I even taught one Sunday school session on Halloween myself, complete with pumpkin carved with a devil face! We covered some interesting ground on good v evil, light v dark etc.
The Harry Potter stories are quite morally good, in the principles espoused- loyalty to friends, courage in opposing evil, and so on.
As a Christian, (but mainstream, not fundamentalist), I was happy for my own children to read them.

OP, I would be rolling my eyes so hard. You have my sympathies.

However, I think you're on a fools errand looking for guidelines or a rational explanation as to why somethings are ok and others aren't. Sounds like they havent a clue themselves and are either making it up as they go along or parroting things they've heard from others.

I'd just tell them your plans (if you could be bothered) and they can take it or leave it.

I think the difference is that in Harry Potter the premise is that the "heroes" of the story are involved in magic and witchcraft. In the Wizard of Oz the witch is evil isn't she? I've not seen it in over thirty years so maybe I'm missing the point. (I'm not boycotting it on religious grounds, it's just I remember thinking it was really shit when I watched it as a child.)

It’s bonkers. Because even if magic was real - which it isn’t - HP is fiction and not a manual on how to use witchcraft. Even if it was - in the world of HP you either have magical powers or you don’t, you can’t pick it up if you’re a muggle. I digress… but what I’m saying it makes no sense at all.
There are books that ‘teach magic’ - I have one which I read just for fun, I don’t believe in it. Sharing that might be inappropriate which I’d appreciate. But a story is a story - fiction is fiction - and anyone who doesn’t understand that is lacking in some intelligence surely - I don’t say that lightly because I do know some otherwise intelligent people with similar attitudes, although not as extreme as you have described. But some people are just determined to be awkward, they don’t care if what they say makes any sense.

Since you know the parents, how is it complicated? Just contact them first - “thinking of going to the cinema/buying X book/having a this type friends gathering, is that something you’d be happy with little Sharon coming to or would you prefer not?” Or else “Sophie really wants Sharon to be able to come to the cinema, any of these shows ok by you?”

Christian here. Don’t have an issue with Harry Potter personally - in fact can draw parallels with some of the gospels if I need to. But no issues if someone else would prefer to avoid - we all draw different lines. And if my faith isn’t challenged by reading Harry Potter but my friend’s is, then I’ll avoid it when with them to avoid bringing them into sin (meat sacrificed to idols a good guide I find).

My Year 6 class went on a school trip to the Warner Bros Harry Potter Studios in Watford two years ago.
All except one poor boy whose parents wouldn’t allow him to go because it conflicted with their Christian beliefs.
I felt so sorry for him.
All the kids were so excited for weeks leading up to the trip and we did lots of work linked to it too (script writing, costume design, etc) which he couldn’t participate in.
He was devastated.
The head got involved and tried talking to the parents but they wouldn’t budge.

Half of me thinks that I should make accommodations for people's beliefs and half just wants to tell them to get lost! I have made accommodations for friends' beliefs on many occasions, for example, serving vegetarian food hen Muslims are invited or once not serving any alcohol when the friends we were having to dinner belonged to a church where it isn't allowed. The major difference is that none of these others ever asked me to do this or make any fuss. If there had been alcohol on the table or even bacon they would have just ignored it and carried on as usual. Such behaviour makes them so easy to deal with and makes you feel that you want to have things right when entertaining them. Demanding things has the opposite effect.
My daughter tells me that yes, this child does love days out with us as I am far less controlling in all respects, especially food. I think a child needs to eat healthily, obviously, but a day out is one day for breaking the rules.

I care because my daughter cares. The child in question is nice and well mannered. My daughter sits with her at school, has known her since Nursery and enjoys her company. It does sometimes get awkward when negotiating with these people. If I could avoid the awkwardness I would be grateful.

I’m a Christian, was raised a Christian and wasn’t allowed Halloween, Harry Potter, goosebumps or anything with witches etc, but could watch the demon headmaster and Lord of the rings and other sci do fantasy stuff. Most of it I think was pretty random reactions to anything vaguely new age/pagan and trying to keep kids from being influenced by it. Didn’t work - I went full on pagan in my teens. Sometimes forbidden stuff seems more interesting I guess.

I became a Christian again later and ive heard all the arguments about stuff leading kids astray. What I would say is the parents of your kids friend are probably trying clumsily to do their best for thier kids, having listened to a load of nonsense that’s totally fear based. Try and be understanding and just keep on the safer side of whatever if your kid has a good friendship there. The kid will either rebel or conform at some point when older, and by then your kid will be older and friendships can change anyway.

We don’t do Halloween but it’s not banned, we just do alternate autumn stuff, and don’t generally ban anything mythical because imagination is so important to kids. Kids need to make their own choices and come to their own conclusions with beliefs.

I have to say though those parents sound like hard work. I’ve let a few Christian friends slide when they were being that extreme.

I think you need to let go of the idea that you can negotiate. I knew someone similar, she just needed to control everything, it wasn't about religion. I realised that I couldn't meet her 'in the middle' and we stopped being friends, as did our children. I still feel horrible about it as her daughter was lovely, but I realised I was walking on eggshells around her and was never going to be able to understand her rationale for anything and it was making me increasingly angry in her company.