To find this behaviour utterly illogical?

[DrSeuss]

Surely if you ban your child from having anything to do with Harry Potter to the extent that they can’t attend a Hogwarts themed birthday party and don’t allow them to celebrate Halloween at all, all on the grounds that the Bible forbids magic and witchcraft, you can’t then allow the child free access to “The Wizard of Oz” or hold a Peter Pan themed party or one with an Elsa from Frozen in costume? The book of Deuteronomy does indeed forbid magic according to Google. I find it firstly nonsensical and also a nightmare to navigate as the parent of such a child’s friend. Newest one is that David Walliams books are OK except for “The Demon Dentist “. I have no issue with people believing whatever makes them happy and would describe myself as having a Christian faith ( not very observant but still familiar with all the teachings of the C of E). The parents are C of E too but of a very different type to either my family or the Anglican school where I work, both being pretty accepting of all shades of belief. It’s quite tricky when my daughter and theirs want to spend time together. Something such as a simple cinema visit becomes so complicated when a film which has a suitable certificate for primary age children must still be pre approved in case it contains a forbidden theme. This is made even harder when Disney magic is deemed fine but others may not be.
Ideally, I would like someone with greater theological knowledge than me or who also believes that portrayals of magic in popular culture are wrong to help me understand and maybe give me some guidelines. I did once try asking why Disney was fine but Harry Potter wasn’t but the mother didn’t really answer me, just said that’s how it is. I asked the child as gently as possible if she was aware of why she can watch the witches in Oz but she said quite frankly that she didn’t know.

I am frustrated by the woolliness of their arguments and the arbitrary nature of decisions but this girl is a good friend of my daughter’s and is a pleasant child so I persevere.

I really hope someone can advise me.

Well said Libraries

That was to your first post.

@DrSeuss

I care because my daughter cares. The child in question is nice and well mannered. My daughter sits with her at school, has known her since Nursery and enjoys her company. It does sometimes get awkward when negotiating with these people. If I could avoid the awkwardness I would be grateful.

That's understandable, so good on you persisting in trying to let your daughter and her friend have time together.

But why care beyond that? If you suggest a cinema trip and they say no to a film - maybe ask your daughter to see if there are any others on that she would like to see and suggest that? Or just organise a play date or trip to a park or something instead for another time? But beyond that there is nothing else you can do, just explain to your daughter and see the movie without them. Why do you need to understand their motivations fully? What do you hope to achieve? It's not going to change whether its a yes or no in future.

We had something similar in a school I worked in where the parents were appalled their daughter brought home the worst witch book from the library.

DrSeuss you sound really nice.
I think it's lucky for your daughter's friend that you are so patient and willing to accommodate her parent's awkward behaviour even though its driving you mad!

But Harry Potter is a STORY. No one believes it’s true.
Speak for yourself! I know its true. I've got the Hogwarts letter to prove it

DS had a friend at primary school who wasn't allowed to read Harry Potter, and all manner of other things. DS used to lend him books and his mum would read them first to make sure they were OK.
But like a PP said we have different boundaries. His mum is a good friend of mine, we just disagree about Harry

FWIW I'm a Christian and my house is full of Harry Potter stuff.

I'm an atheist but I was raised like that too (no Halloween, etc). The Demon Headmaster that a pp mentioned isn't actually a demon so I don't see that being an issue (I loved it too!)

Just because you don't understand their reasoning doesn't mean it's not meaningful to them. It's stuff about the 'occult' etc, so obviously it's going to be hard to draw the line at where is fun magic and where is (they believe) motivated by the devil. They probably just don't want to get into it with you as they know you think it's all bull.

No-one's saying 'it's true' - that's not the point. It was the same for me when I was a kid with ouija boards etc. They think getting interested in this stuff will open their mind to other harmful things.

It's hard but it must also be hard to believe that this is going to harm your child and you need to be alert and protect them from it.

I am sympathetic OP and not here just to argue the toss - I wouldn't do this to my own kids! but a bit of tolerance of different beliefs is only a good thing? Presumably you're OK with providing a kosher diet etc to Jewish kids even if you don't believe the same things?

I suppose I feel that if I can understand their way of thinking, I can avoid the awkwardness that occurs when I invite their daughter and it is made clear that she won't be available as my choice is unsuitable. If I could know in advance that it wasn't going to work, I would either pick something else or not bother. But the decisions are impossible to anticipate. Even the list of books for the Borough Libraries Half Term Challenge is mostly deemed unsuitable due to content. These books were chosen by the local library service, not Satan!

@DrSeuss

I suppose I feel that if I can understand their way of thinking, I can avoid the awkwardness that occurs when I invite their daughter and it is made clear that she won't be available as my choice is unsuitable. If I could know in advance that it wasn't going to work, I would either pick something else or not bother. But the decisions are impossible to anticipate. Even the list of books for the Borough Libraries Half Term Challenge is mostly deemed unsuitable due to content. These books were chosen by the local library service, not Satan!

Yes, that is hard and the book list thing sounds... interesting! What's on it?! I suspect they may be outsourcing their decision-making to those websites that analyse everything for 'harmful' content?

People are religious in diff ways. I suspect their preferences are not text based but more their own conservative values.
We are religious and I try to prevent my kids seeing things I feel are harmful (squidgy me for eg) I have relatives that used to utterly ban the mention of things pertaining to other religions and removing pictures from storybooks...
It was not based in our religion it was their personal preferences.

@Aquamarine1029

Sorry, but pandering to these ridiculous people is a fool's game. My daughter would have to find another friend because there is no way I am changing my values and lifestyle to accommodate anyone's religious nonsense and hypocrisy.

This.Agree.

Allergy yes, parenting choices like that? Jog on.

Reminds me of a little party I was giving for my first child and issued a class wide invite to the house, 28 children.

Anyway the RSVP's arrived and I received a text from one woman telling me her child wasn't allowed any sugar whatsoever as she didn't think it was good for children and could I ensure he didn't eat any🙄

Give me strength.

I text back, absolutely not, I could not ensure her child didn't eat any, I would be FAR too busy looking after all the other children, but she was welcome to stay and monitor HER childs food.

She did too. The tantrum he had over the food was epic.

🙄

Squid game not squidy

Thank you, RightOnTheEdge. I do try.

I know of parents who complained that Macbeth was taught as a set GCSE text due to the witches and wanted it changed. Same parents wouldn’t let their child do RE due to studying other faiths, PSHE, and also complained about the teaching of the Reformation in History and evolution in science. Pulled their kid out to homeschool them

@DrSeuss

I suppose I feel that if I can understand their way of thinking, I can avoid the awkwardness that occurs when I invite their daughter and it is made clear that she won't be available as my choice is unsuitable. If I could know in advance that it wasn't going to work, I would either pick something else or not bother. But the decisions are impossible to anticipate. Even the list of books for the Borough Libraries Half Term Challenge is mostly deemed unsuitable due to content. These books were chosen by the local library service, not Satan!

You are very unwise to be trying to tailor your child's party to the beliefs of some random adult.

Not a chance would I entertain it.

I wouldn’t even bother to try and understand them. I’d just plan play dates enough in advance to suggest the whole plan when you suggest the play date and they can either agree or disagree.

Would Matilda like to come over after school on Friday (not 13th!) to watch Cinderella (magic but Disney so doesn’t count obvs) and eat pepperoni pizza?

I'm Catholic and have my own particular beliefs, but I want my children to make up their own minds about stuff, so we've done some Halloween stuff, gonna do Father Christmas with them, and they can read or watch whatever is age appropriate.
I guess I'm a pretty shit Catholic and a hypocrite, but I'd rather my daughters find out experientially/empirically about stuff, than exclude/ban this, that and the other. 🤷

Oh, I didn't change a thing, Billy, just carried on as planned minus one attendee. Took the kid out earlier this week to a museum with an IMAX. Vaguely said something to father on pick up about may be seeing a film there (they have films about space and animal documentaries, in line with the museum) and then opened my phone after driving to the museum to a demand from mother that I tell her the name of the film. Was quite tempted to tell her Halloween Occult Satanic Black Mass Part 2 but decided instead to ignore the message. We were over an hour's drive away and about to see a certificate U film about the International Space Station (really good, BTW) and just couldn't be bothered!

I do agree that anything such as Tarot or ouija boards is a bad idea and tell the kids I work with that when it comes up as it sometimes does with teens. Not because of religious reasons but because it's a good way to scare yourself shitless and it's nonsense.

It is arrant nonsense and dangerous. No sensible Christians believe this rubbish. Harry Potter isn’t really about magic or witchcraft; it’s an allegory of good and evil like so many stories. Of course the mother can’t explain it because it’s based on a very odd interpretation of the bible. Even if the child is your daughter’s friend I wouldn’t be enabling this type of thing.

I know several families of the Scottish Presbyterian "wee free" persuasion - the real hardcore, hellfire and brimstone types. No parties on a Sunday, no telly on a Sunday.

They disapprove of the "occult", won't let their kids dress as witches/devils for Halloween events but they are allowed to attend parties at school/nursery dressed as a fairy, fireman, pirate etc. No Harry Potter. They are OK with cartoons like Frozen though, maybe it's not so "real"? (If anything can be real when you're talking about witches and spells)

I have made accommodations for friends' beliefs on many occasions, for example, serving vegetarian food hen Muslims are invited or once not serving any alcohol when the friends we were having to dinner belonged to a church where it isn't allowed.

But that’s also not generally the expectation either. If someone can’t eat certain things for religious reasons they abstain from eating it and have an alternative - it definitely doesn’t mean everyone else at the event has to eat the alternative. You don’t have to not serve any alcohol because one person doesn’t drink it, just don’t serve that person alcohol if they are seriously of the opinion that their religious believes trump everyone else’s individual decisions and that everyone must follow suit when they are around then I wouldn’t associate with them. It’s not rational or sensible.

I'm a Christian mum and DC didn't read harry potter or dress up harry-potter style when that was the theme for their school houses on world book day. We also don't celebrate Halloween, I never did as a child and don't even understand the whole thing, to be honest.
DH even went further not allowing our DD to participate in a witch-themed end-of-the-year performance at her dance school. I was fine with her participating but had to respect his wishes.

In all of these, we've explained carefully to the kids why we made the decisions and now they are in secondary school, they actually believe it themselves and will boldly tell anyone who wishes to listen.

You need to understand people's backgrounds have strong inclinations as to their value and belief systems, I'm one of such. I'm a relatively liberal parent with kids who engage socially with the few exceptions mentioned above. Unfortunately, I won't change what I believe in just because it's deemed 'socially unpopular'. Both kids have friends across a wide sphere and religion has never been a basis of how or who we socialise with.

I did once try asking why Disney was fine but Harry Potter wasn’t but the mother didn’t really answer me, just said that’s how it is

I suggest you press her on that one, if necessary quoting the relevant bit of Deuteronomy at her and asking her exactly why it doesn't apply to Disney witches etc. If people want to impose their views on others to the extent of making their lives difficult if they don't guess right about which piece of irrationality they adhere to, they really need to be in a position to explain themselves properly.

In my first class as a newly qualified teacher, I had a good reader whose parents would not allow her to read any book with magic in it.

It was surprisingly difficult to police this, especially since fairy stories and Enid Blyton were apparently acceptable, which I stupidly questioned when told this. The parents were not impressed by being questioned by a young, clearly ignorant teacher who they felt should never have been employed in a church school...

The other difficulty in policing was that the child was obsessed by witches - always drawing them, bringing the conversation round to them, asking if we were doing anything for Halloween (no, as a church school, it was never mentioned except in everyone's news books!).

I met her in town at the age of about 15, in full goth makeup and outfit. I wonder how her parents felt.