to blame Tony Blair for the lack of skilled workforce?

[dunkaccino]

In the 1980's only 15% of school leavers went into higher education leaving a good lot of people to become tradesmen/HGV drivers/butchers etc. Tony Blair decided in 1999 that 50% going to University was a great aim, which was finally achieved in 2019.

Now we have a lack of everyone useful - electricians, carpenters, fitters, engineers, butchers, drivers - coupled with a multitude of unskilled mickey mouse degree graduates who are of no practical use to anyone.

Covid & brexit have undeniably both played a part, but AIBU to think that Blairs idea was basically a bit shit and has left us lacking in the skilled workforce needed to run the country?

[quote MerryChristmasToYou]**@SpinsForGin, Media studies is an excellent degree for those wanting a career in the media sector. It always get trotted out as a Mickey Mouse degree but there are many, many media degree which have excellent graduate employment figures.

As for communication and philosophy, again these can have excellent outcomes as the skills developed on these programmes are highly sought after..80 % of graduate jobs don't specify a particular degree subject.

Can you back this up?[/quote]
Yes. Which bit specifically?

@SpinsForGin

unskilled mickey mouse degree graduates who are of no practical use to anyone.

Could you define a Mickey Mouse degree please?

Gender studies.

Why do you think that is a Mickey Mouse degree?

I don't mix in that world.

A lot of the people I work with are engineering graduates or IT graduates. Sometimes the engineers will have done a degree in something else and done a conversion masters. I don't rate it.

@MerryChristmasToYou

I don't mix in that world.

A lot of the people I work with are engineering graduates or IT graduates. Sometimes the engineers will have done a degree in something else and done a conversion masters. I don't rate it.

What don't you rate?

IT conversion masters degree

Gender studies.

Only two universities in the UK offer an undergraduate degree which mentions gender in the title. One is actually more of a politics and social sciences degree and it's very heavy on the politics. The other is English literature and gender.
We're hardly in Mickey Mouse territory are we?

There are a few postgraduate courses but it's very common for these to be very specific in focus.

@MerryChristmasToYou

IT conversion masters degree

Fair enough.... that's your prerogative. As long as that's not influencing you view in higher education in general 🤷🏼‍♀️

@MerryChristmasToYou

IT conversion masters degree

Why not?

Because I have one.

I hate the term 'mickey mouse degree'. I immediately ignore the opinions of anyone who says it.

@SpinsForGin

Gender studies.

Only two universities in the UK offer an undergraduate degree which mentions gender in the title. One is actually more of a politics and social sciences degree and it's very heavy on the politics. The other is English literature and gender.
We're hardly in Mickey Mouse territory are we?

There are a few postgraduate courses but it's very common for these to be very specific in focus.

Of course, gender studies graduates is what we need - said no one ever. While we recruit for engineers, doctors and IT professionals form abroad.

There's some seriously pompous folk on this thread! Quite the eye opener.

@MerryChristmasToYou

IT conversion masters degree

Because too many people take conversion degrees any never write a line of code outside it. Computer Science students learn the theory but they will also have done their own projects for the practical part.

I’m a programmer with no related degree. Got my job based on my own projects.going to go for a conversion next year but it’s for HR. My own boss (20 years experience) says it’s bollocks but sees the need for the filter.

@Pontypandytaxpayer

I hate the term 'mickey mouse degree'. I immediately ignore the opinions of anyone who says it.

Me too. Although I do find it hilarious when they name a degree that either doesn't exist ( see gender studies!!) or a degree that has excellent graduate outcomes.

Im a course leader of a so called Mickey Mouse degree which has had 100% graduate employability for years and employers falling over themselves to offer paid placements.....

I have a lot of issues with Tony Blair and New Labour but one of the things they really did and did well was invest in education inc. adult and vocational

Remember all those adverts for free adult literacy and numeracy and other courses

Then there were massive improvements made in FE colleges, and they either introduced or pushed NVQs alongside GCSEs, and BTECs as an alternative to A-Levels. All vocational job based skills.

Apprenticeships I think we’re a mixed bag reintroduced and pushed by the Tories before and after, but also pushed by Labour

It wasn’t just all about University

Of course, gender studies graduates is what we need - said no one ever. While we recruit for engineers, doctors and IT professionals form abroad.
Well, gender studies as an undergraduate degree doesn't exist. You can study politics with gender but it's essentially a politics degree. Or English literature.....

Are you suggesting we stop running courses which don't lead directly to a specific job? When we have a labour market in which 80% of graduate jobs don't specify a particular subject?

That would be a sad state of affairs.

You are conflating different issues here, OP.
The shortage of HGV drivers was not caused by people choosing to do media studies degrees. Some of these jobs have been badly paid for decades considering what the work involves. Combine that with the cost of living going up and wages not rising, no one wants these jobs.

It was then framed as "immigrants stealing our jobs" when actually the problem is British people not wanting the work anyway. And why would someone choose to be a HGV driver and spend days away from home or work super long days on the road if they can have an office job instead for the same money?

@TractorAndHeadphones, you've got it in one.

Recruiters often ask for a minimum of 2:1. In the good old days, most people didn't get a 2:1 or a first, so they'll be filtered out. The people with an HND will be filtered out.

A really good software engineer I know struggled to get a job because he didn't have a degree.

There is hidden or unconscious ageism there.

@nordica

You are conflating different issues here, OP. The shortage of HGV drivers was not caused by people choosing to do media studies degrees. Some of these jobs have been badly paid for decades considering what the work involves. Combine that with the cost of living going up and wages not rising, no one wants these jobs.

It was then framed as "immigrants stealing our jobs" when actually the problem is British people not wanting the work anyway. And why would someone choose to be a HGV driver and spend days away from home or work super long days on the road if they can have an office job instead for the same money?

If only Tony Blair had paid HGV drivers more we wouldn't be in this mess.

It was then framed as "immigrants stealing our jobs" when actually the problem is British people not wanting the work anyway. And why would someone choose to be a HGV driver and spend days away from home or work super long days on the road if they can have an office job instead for the same money?

I have not looked at HGV jobs, but I went through a spell of unemployment and many job ads had 'Ability to speak Polish an advantage'. It was when people would boast that they got polish tradespeople in because they were 'so good and so cheap'.

I've also worked with people in India. They were also 'so cheap and so good'. Those I worked with worked very quickly and the work was rejected by QA.

I think our wages have been kept down because of freedom of movement and it hasn't helped our housing situation

[quote MerryChristmasToYou]@TractorAndHeadphones, you've got it in one.

Recruiters often ask for a minimum of 2:1. In the good old days, most people didn't get a 2:1 or a first, so they'll be filtered out. The people with an HND will be filtered out.

A really good software engineer I know struggled to get a job because he didn't have a degree.

There is hidden or unconscious ageism there.[/quote]
Exactly!
More people getting degrees doesn’t mean more people with critical thinking skills. Or more employable people. Past a certain point it becomes just another hoop to jump through.

Many young people feel pushed to going into uni despite not knowing what they want to do. Can’t get a job and work their way up because a lot of admin etc jobs require degrees!

Not everybody needs to go to uni full time. The ideal is like the Oxford Brookes accounting degree which people with a professional qualification can do a top up project to get. That way the ‘hoops’ issue won’t apply because people have experience.

Regarding ‘passion’ subjects yes media studies is highly regarded - for example Ravensbourne, last in rankings very very highly regarded in the industry. It’s not the subject but the uni, their students have portfolios etc. The few unis that offer it have good links with employers.

Compared to generic ‘history’ - some universities take in students with CCD with the C being in history. They’re not suddenly going to blossom into academically inclined students just because they managed to get into uni. Our obsession with degrees is ridiculous.

*doesn’t necessarily