Thank god we don’t live in Sweden. AIBU?

[sw1v]

I was just reading in another thread that in Sweden, you are basically forced to send your babies into day care settings at the age of 1. Apparently 50% of 1 year olds are in full- time nurseries (very long days inc. parents’ commutes) and 95% by the time they are 2! Plus (unlike in the U.K.) there is apparently no minimum ratio for staff to children.

But what if you are a mother who simply doesn’t want to do this (or father)? I personally, would hate this. So how is it acceptable for ‘the state’ to be interfering in people’s personal spheres and family lives by making this ‘the societal norm.’ Is it because they are a high tax society and want more tax? Is this it? Well, it seems like an infringement on personal liberties to me (without wanting to sound too dramatic).

AIBU?

It probably depends on what part of Sweden.

I wouldn't worry .You were basically forced to go to school for 11+ years and it doesn't seem to have had much of an impact.

@MarshmallowSwede

Nonsense… We are not forced. Most women work part time in Sweden so choose to put their child in nursery.

We also put the baby in nursery so they can learn to socialise and if we have to run errands that day it’s also fine for the little one to be there for a couple of hours. So the little one is able to learn to be around other children (not siblings). This is good FOR SWEDEN. I know it might not work for other countries, but this works well for us for women to be able to return to work and we know that we have good reliable child care.

We have subsidized child care and for us this is normal, but no woman in Sweden is forced to do anything. I understand we are extremely lucky and privileged due to this.
Due to childcare and just how things are set up we have a lot of choices. Also, if you’re trying to force Swedish women to do anything then you’re going to have a difficult time doing that. 😂

It is incorrect to say that 'most women work part time in Sweden'. Stats from 2018 state that 48 % of working class women work part-time and 24 % of female white collar workers. (Men: 15 % and 10 %)

www.lo.se/start/lo_fakta/orsaker_till_deltidsarbete_2018

I have no idea why so many people on this thread have posted completely inaccurate facts about Sweden and Swedish circumstances. Most facts are very easy to find.

The OP is correct that there are very strong incentives for both parents to work full-time as soon as the maternity/paternity days are over. For white collar workers/richer people this is often when the child is 1.5-2 years old. They can 'save paid days' since they have more money (days can be taken until the child turns 8). Poorer people more often have to make use of preschool from the age of 1.

'Forcing' may not be correct, but in principle, given the consumerist society we are, few people can withstand the forces of society, friends and family, financial incentives etc that all work to make people make choice 1.

(And can people please stop posting inane comments about 'forcing'. It should be very clear by now what the OP means.)

I live in Sweden and know several parents who choose not to send their children to childcare for a variety of reasons. Nobody is forced to send them, what an ignorant crock of shit.

I sent my DS from age 1 despite being a SAHM because out local nursery is just wonderful. I regularly see the staff taking the littlies off the forest to hang out. They have bikes with seating on the front for 6 toddlers and seeing them all go off on their adventures together is lovely. I feel truly priviledged that my son got to grow up here.

Such a load of old bollocks ...

MarshmallowSwede - it’s not something I would personally want, even if it was free. I mean, I might use a few mornings or something, but that’s it. I am a British person, as in I’ve been here a long time and am raising children here, but I wasn’t born here and neither was my husband and we personally would not choose to structure our family or our lives like that. So that society would not suit us. We are definitely not the only ones.

I don’t mean ‘forced’ as such, obviously.

So why did you say "forced" then?
That has what has got people riled up.

Are any of the other words in your post meant to have entirely the opposite meaning? How can we find this out?

@sw1v

MarshmallowSwede - it’s not something I would personally want, even if it was free. I mean, I might use a few mornings or something, but that’s it. I am a British person, as in I’ve been here a long time and am raising children here, but I wasn’t born here and neither was my husband and we personally would not choose to structure our family or our lives like that. So that society would not suit us. We are definitely not the only ones.

I think these are things people think about before they move Countries.

Can I just say, babies dont learn to socialise with other children.

I can't decide if the op is xenophobic or has a lack of critical thinking skills. Possibly both, they seem to go together........

@sw1v

Well fair enough, I should have checked the exact stats before I posted. But I thought someone in here might know about this and explain if or why it’s true. And I am asking AIBU. This is the point!

You didn't ask whether it was true.

You stated it as fact and then asked whether YABU to 'thank god' we don't live in Sweden.

An excellent publication @DressedUpAtAnIvy, may I commend your good taste? It's in their "Wilfully Misunderstood Anecdata" section, a top-hole article.

I think they're bringing out a weekend supplement called "Ignorant Suppositions," alongside their sister magazine - "Goady Fucker Round-up".

Would you like a subscription?

@ChargingBuck this is glorious. Thank you! 😂

@DressedUpAtAnIvy

Where did you read this, Xenophobia Today?

LOL!

If I understand what you’re saying correctly - you’re glad that we have a system that effectively prices women out of the workplace because the result is that it normalises staying at home with your children, which is what you want to do?

@mugandspoon

I’m Swedish.. and I’ll correct my language. “A lot “ or many women work part time. I didn’t feel the need to if Google stats as I’m going off of my own experience and that of other Swedish people I know.

A lot of women in Sweden work. Many go back to work when their children are older as well.

And make them non reliant on their parents

What do you mean? Children who go to nursery still bond with and need their parents. Parents are still bringing them up. As for being less reliant on their parents (later in life as they grow up) - that's not a bad thing.

@sw1v

I’m not slagging off Sweden fgs. I’m just saying (if these stats are true) thank god I don’t feel pressured to have my kids in full-time day care at the age if 2. I mean, fair enough if people want to or need to do this (that’s personal choice), but 95% is pretty much all babies and surely, if this is the case, you would feel like a societal weirdo just having your own children at home. At age 2!

Don’t move to Canada either.

Most children are in daycare at age 1.

Also, if you attend a sporting event (we obviously force hockey on everyone), you’ll have to listen to the national anthem spliced in two languages. More indoctrination. Forced to learn french

Why do you assume that the difference is because Swedish parents are forced to send their children to nursery, instead of British parents being forced to keep their children home because they can’t afford nursery?

And I’m pregnant with my first child and I’m not sure I will ever go back to work after giving birth. But I will put my child in nursery when I feel that they are ready.

I always thought I would go back part time, but I’m not sure now and as it would be ok for me to stay home full time and therefore my child not need nursery, I still think my child would benefit from being at nursery 1 or 2 days a week. But this is just me. Everyone is free to decide if or when their child goes to nursery.

I love Sweden! I think they get a lot of things right about supporting parents.

No one is forced, but when good quality affordable childcare is freely available many more mothers have the option to return to work, thus raising enough tax to fund the subsidised childcare.

Sounds a lot better than forcing women to sacrafice their careers when they have dc like we do in the UK.

OP, have you ever been to Sweden? Spoken with Swedish people? Been to a Swedish childcare setting or school?

Because I find it hard to understand how you are able to judge the culture of a whole country ( which will have differences within itself) and decide if you could live there from reading a "statistic " somewhere on the internet.

Seriously unbelievable.

I'

[quote MarshmallowSwede]@mugandspoon

I’m Swedish.. and I’ll correct my language. “A lot “ or many women work part time. I didn’t feel the need to if Google stats as I’m going off of my own experience and that of other Swedish people I know.

A lot of women in Sweden work. Many go back to work when their children are older as well.[/quote]
Given that so many people are giving incorrect information, and given the fact that the OP has been flogged for posting correct statistics, I think it is a good idea to post actual statistics instead of anecdotal information :-)

I also wouldn't say that 24 % of 'officer status' (tjänstemanna)-women says that a lot of women work part-time, rather the opposite!

I don't know any Swedish woman who has not returned to work immediately following the end of their maternity days. But for white collar workers, there are often options like 'leave earlier and do some work in the evening' etc - and most, if not all, men and women I know/know of, have made extensive use of that to cut down on hours in preschool. But few have officially reduced their hours.

There is also the opposite, quoted above, where Stockholm parents make extensive use of the option of putting siblings of newborns in preschool 40 hours per week (used to be 30 hours, now they can get 40 hours).

I am hardly xenophobic. And did I read someone calling me a Brexiteer earlier in the thread? What’s that got to do with it? I couldn’t be more anti-Brexit, trust me on that. I’m not even British! And even if I was, I’d still wish Brexit never happened. I’m simply saying, it would not suit me to live in a society where putting your two-year-old in full-time day care was seen as the optimum lifestyle choice for all. Because given the choice, that is not something I would actually want and I know I’m not the only one.

With all this forced childcare and children not bonding with their parents it's a bloody miracle that Sweden is constantly ranked 1st as the best country to raise children in and 5th for the happiest children. Thank god you don't live in Sweden? More like get down on your knees and start praying for the chance to/

We don’t go around gossiping about people who don’t put their baby in nursery OP. It’s just one of the many options available to families in Sweden. You don’t have to put the child in nursery.

There are lots of things culturally that work for us that I imagine do not and would not work for non Swedish.

It’s important to research Swedish culture before you move, because I can imagine it would be difficult for some people to integrate.

And also.. obviously it doesn’t hurt Swedish children to be in nursery. We have a high quality of life, so obviously children are being raised up to become happy healthy adults who contribute to make Sweden a nice place (in my opinion) to live. So I don’t think nursery harms Swedish children or harms our society at all.

But I appreciate the differences of opinion on it. As long as children can be around other children and form friendships and be happy that is what matters.