Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

People will tend to focus on the most obvious descriptor when trying to point someone out or when trying to describe them. Sometimes it will be a physical feature - gender, skin/hair colour, height, age, use of an obvious physical aid (wheelchair/walking stick etc) - and sometimes it will be another descriptor - clothes, accessories, something they're with/near etc.

The key factor is whether the descriptor is being used in an appropriate context. If you have a room with 25 white people and 5 POC, then if you are trying to tell someone who "Sam" is then referring to skin colour as part of the description is relevent if Sam is one of the POC (as it allows you to immediately discount the majority of the irrelevant people), whereas if Sam is one of the 25 white people then using skin colour doesn't narrow the description down much and so people are more likely to rely on other physical features.

I work in a supermarket and we have headsets so that we can communicate with each other with important information. This includes making each other aware of specific customers for various reasons and we will give as much information as possible whist trying to be as concise as possible as the headsets are all connected so everyone can hear every communication and someone going on and on with a description basically "blocks the line" so other information can't be passed on. The town I live in is a working class town in the NW of England where 96.9% of residents are white British, so almost every customer is white ... when we talk about someone on the headset we tend to refer to clothing/age/hair colour etc but if a black or Asian customer came in then the quickest way to distinguish them would be to refer to them as "the black lady in the green jacket" or "The Asian gentleman in the blue jumper" in the same way we would refer to "the lady with the purple hair", "the gentleman in the wheelchair", "the lady in the black hoodie with 3 kids". We pick something obvious and distinguishing - sometimes it is ethnicity, sometimes it is clothing but it is never something derogatory, negative or made with ill intent.

How do you describe someone of the same skin colour? Do that.

Reading back, it is obvious I misinterpreted this to mean 'of the same skin colour as yourself', sorry.

By saying ‘the black lady’ suggests that the standard is white

I don't think that's necessarily implied. If you say 'the blonde woman' or 'the man with glasses' or 'the black woman' or 'the elderly man with the green T-shirt', or 'the woman with Downs Syndrome' it doesn't mean you think they're 'not standard'. It just means that this particular characteristic helps distinguish them from the other human beings who happen to be in the room on that occasion. It isn't some kind of judgement or insult, in the way it would be if you said 'the ugly man' or 'the tarty woman' or 'the boring guy' or 'the woman with the hideous dress and massive backside'.

I think we need to stop people from calling everything some "ism"
racism,.. blabla-ism. Why be offended so easily? Wh are coming to a point where we can't joke about race or sex or gender or anything anymore because people like you have to call everything an "ism"
See I was called shimpansee, monkey, poopface and god knows what. I never called it racism though I just called it insulting. See racism for me is when i left my white home country for holidays - the country where i grew up, went to school and worked - to come back to customs officers who picked me out of line with white people in front of me and behind me to question me on my reasons for entering my own home country and search my bags. That is racism and they didnt even have to call me any colour.

For those who keep saying they've never seen a single black person not want to be called Black. They exist. You're probably only looking where you want to look. OP is one, so you've seen one person who doesn't want to. I'm one too (although I don't think it's racist to say).

OP has also shared a link and clip of at least two more people.

Here's another one - an American man.
www.pbs.org/video/kmele-foster-doesnt-self-identify-black-yw7cow/

mobile.twitter.com/kmele/status/1001470244836335616?lang=en

www.spiked-online.com/podcast-episode/i-dont-identify-as-black/

I personally know three other Americans (a man and two women) who do. There are others on the thread someone mentioned and the bmn forum. Hopefully, you'll have no need to make that claim of 'never seeing someone blah blah'... anymore. You can disagree with it but don't make it out to be stupid, then expect the OP to respect your preference.

you would refer to him as South Asian or ethnically Indian (unsure of correct terms), but it wouldn't be related to his "browness"

One of the things I've adjusted to in the USA is that the word brown is a pc descriptor for people, often used alongside black, so black and brown people.
I've noticed that what the USA starts the UK often follows so you may find yourself using that descriptor.

Oh what bollocks. Saying the colour of someone's skin is descriptive, not racist.

But I find #blacklivesmatter discriminatory. Yes, of course they do, obviously. But you know what? White lives matter equally, but where's our campaign? Where's our protests, etc?

Posts like this really piss me off. The vast majority of people who use the terms 'black', or 'coloured', etc., do not mean any offence at all, yet people who are determined to be offended will always find a way.

Live and let live - even if that means stating the colour of someone's skin.

Here's another American. Many more to find through them. As I said, if you look, you'll see.

mobile.twitter.com/Racelessness

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist.

No.

@difficultdayahead

Oh what bollocks. Saying the colour of someone's skin is descriptive, not racist.

But I find #blacklivesmatter discriminatory. Yes, of course they do, obviously. But you know what? White lives matter equally, but where's our campaign? Where's our protests, etc?

Posts like this really piss me off. The vast majority of people who use the terms 'black', or 'coloured', etc., do not mean any offence at all, yet people who are determined to be offended will always find a way.

Live and let live - even if that means stating the colour of someone's skin.

Really? That’s your contribution!

Spouting out white lives matter is undeniably racist. We’ve established a million times over yes all lives matter however white lives are not the ones currently at risk hence no need for protests!

Why don’t you go find a children’s cancer charity so you can jump around and shout all cancers matter?

You write the word ‘black’ out in full, but then write ‘b-tch’ and ‘the N word’. You clearly know they’re not equivalent.

You don't speak for everyone. Just for you.

I am brown
And If people refer to me as a brown woman, then they are right. Not racist

so black and brown people.

To be fair, I have seen that online with US dwellers. You don't really hear it in the UK like that

As someone who isn't white either, I do feel like you're trying to impose your opinion on everyone else.

My view is that by refusing to acknowledge skin colour in situations where it's appropriate, we're treating it like some kind of dirty secret that shouldn't be acknowledged.

I know what racism is, having experienced it. I'm not ashamed of the physical characteristics I have that are linked to my ethnicity (including skin colour), and I know the difference between people referring to them in a negative way and a factual way.

I also know it's not obvious what type of East Asian person I am, so I don't mind East Asian as a descriptor. People are doing their best. I also, for example, wouldn't get offended at being referred to as Korean over Chinese. I'd just calmly correct the descriptor and move on.

If you're in a minority, you have to expect the majority may not have enough experience to get things totally right. The attitude is what is important - things said in good faith are fine. People learn.

Anyone who can't tell the difference between a racist and someone trying their best is very lucky, because they clearly haven't experienced actual racism before.

You and I both know the reason why Lupita and Chimamanda didn’t know they were black until they left Africa has nothing to do with African Americans and everything to do with the fact the black is a term invented by people from outside Africa to describe people of African descent. The only reason it became acceptable to use was because African Americans said it was (because they are not aware of their actual ethnic heritage anymore) and people in all western countries adopted it

Why can Asians be Asian but I must be black because someone else said so?

OP, I'm trying to make an effort to understand what you are saying.

You seem to dislike the word 'black'. But if that word had not been used initially (by white people) to describe a group with a cluster of different physical characteristics to their own, surely a different word would have been used. There would still have been a word, similarly to your example of 'Asian'.

I assume when people who lived in Nigeria for instance saw a white person for the first time they must have used a word to describe that group of people?

It is correct that white is considered the default, read any book

White is the default because we are in Britain. If we were in China, the default would be different. People need to understand this as it's important

The word bitch does not describe someone so if you were to point out someone in a group to another person you would not say 'the bitch'. Your comparison is utterly ridiculous as is your original OP.

Basically anyone can be offended about anything these days. Really sick of walking on eggshells. Best continue socialising in my microcosm

This is probably what will end up happening. Some finding all the antagonism too much to bear so they will keep to their own group limiting interactions to the minimum. It's not a desirable outcome

My daughter has a friend who's mixed race and her mummy says "xxx is mixed race and that's because Mummy is white and daddy is black"

Which is the absolute truth

Not understanding what is wrong with this

If people of African descent are black, then Asians are too. So are North Africans and Middle Easterns. In fact why stop there, Indigenous Australians are also black, Polynesians too, also add brown skinned South Americans

All the groups you are mentioning have a cluster of distinct genetic (some of which result in physical differences) characteristics that distinguish them from others. A native from South America will not share these characteristics with someone from Nigeria. It doesn't mean that they should be 'at the top' or 'at the bottom' as you put it.

Thankfully, the law is on my side and racism is determined by whether the victim feels it’s racist

No, this is incorrect

@petridisher so how would you describe the white man/woman in the meeting?*

If she was the only one, I'd say the white woman. If she was one among many, the quite woman with the dark hair, grey hair, messy hair, big glasses etc.

[quote CannotThinkOfName]@Courtier and a man could say they don’t see why b-tch is an insult as many women identify by that term. Even Lizzo said in her song she’s 100% that b-tch, so according to you, no woman should ever be offended by being called that.[/quote]
You must feel the word bitch is totally inappropriate, you won't even put the correct spelling!

So if someone wants to point someone out to a friend they can’t say ‘the black lady’ or ‘the Asian lady’ or ‘the white lady’. I really don’t see the issue there. If you witnessed a crime for example and were asked by the police to describe someone you’re not going to skirt around the skin colour are you?

This is ridiculous. If you are the only black woman in a room or white women and you are the person someone wants then it makes sense to describe you as having a different skin colour. Would be mad not to.