Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

How do you describe someone who’s black without saying they’re black?

I used to work on the reception desk for a huge company and would have to hold a visitors badge and give it to their "host" as non-employees weren't allowed into the building unaccompanied. Often the host would ask me who "Mr Smith" was as the reception area was often very busy and they didn't always know the person they were meeting.

I'd usually just say "the young man, sat by the coffee machine, in the blue suit/ with glasses/ with the beard/ with the red tie" it's very easy to describe someone without referring to their skin once you get used to it.

I do admit though that I did used to describe race as a default until I realised how rude it was as, like a previous poster mentioned, it assumes white skin is the default.

"Hey, colleague, did you meet Cantthinkofaname in yesterday's meeting?"

"I'm not sure, who is that?"

"The head of marketing"

"I'm not sure, I didn't catch job titles but I did stare at everyone for two hours over Zoom! Can you describe them to me?"

"Umm...the older (ageist) black (racist) lady (sexist) who wears glasses (sightist) and uses a wheelchair (ableist)...

...
...
...

No."

@PetriDisher

"Hey, colleague, did you meet Cantthinkofaname in yesterday's meeting?"

"I'm not sure, who is that?"

"The head of marketing"

"I'm not sure, I didn't catch job titles but I did stare at everyone for two hours over Zoom! Can you describe them to me?"

"Umm...the older (ageist) black (racist) lady (sexist) who wears glasses (sightist) and uses a wheelchair (ableist)...

...
...
...

No."

@petridisher so how would you describe the white man/woman in the meeting?

My belief is that very few people openly admit to holding racist beliefs but most of us are nonetheless unintentionally racist. Every person will encounter some sort of racism in their life as victim and as perpretator. The original poster is entitled to her opinion, I have no issue with her comments it is her belief, she is not a representative or speak person of her community, you can either take it on board or not.

If you lived in a country where the majority of people are black then you would call Jenny a white lady.
Or the lady with red hair.
Or the lady in a wheelchair.
Or the tall lady.
Or the lady in the kilt.

Lady on its own does not narrow it down enough , unless Jenny is standing with a group of men.

Referring to someone as black isn't racist at all. It's perfectly ok to notice and acknowledge colour.

I have two sons one wears glasses and the other has dark red hair often people describe them as the one with glasses or the ginger one. I don't see how it's racist to describe someone based on their features or ethnicity.

@PetriDisher

"Hey, colleague, did you meet Cantthinkofaname in yesterday's meeting?"

"I'm not sure, who is that?"

"The head of marketing"

"I'm not sure, I didn't catch job titles but I did stare at everyone for two hours over Zoom! Can you describe them to me?"

"Umm...the older (ageist) black (racist) lady (sexist) who wears glasses (sightist) and uses a wheelchair (ableist)...

...
...
...

No."

Absolutely nailed it!!!!

This thread is really stupid and I am black.

If describing someone as black is racist, is describing someone as a woman or man, sexist?

Are you ageist if you say someone is young or old?

Get a grip.

I don’t know all the details about the black mumsnet section because I wasn’t actively involved in creating that section.

Yeah, are you sure about that OP?

Beefmeupscotty If they were the only white woman at the meeting, I would refer to them as "the white woman", of course. If there were several, I would supplement with additional physical descriptors, such as "the white woman with short, blonde hair and glasses".

Isn't this just how normal people speak to and about each other?

Some of you must have been rubbish at 'Guess Who?' as kids!

@PetriDisher

Beefmeupscotty If they were the only white woman at the meeting, I would refer to them as "the white woman", of course. If there were several, I would supplement with additional physical descriptors, such as "the white woman with short, blonde hair and glasses".

Isn't this just how normal people speak to and about each other?

Some of you must have been rubbish at 'Guess Who?' as kids!

So why can't you do that with a black woman?

my dd has very fair hair and skin.Her bf is se Asian and talks a lot about how white her skin is .Is this racist too?

I...can. In my opinion. That was rather my point!

I think we might have got wires crossed here...

I'm not fully in support of the OPs argument, I don't mind being called back as part of a description, but do find it offensive if it the only description of me. I am more than just my skin colour.

And I don’t honestly believe you would refer to someone as "the white woman". You'd go straight for the woman with short blonde hair and glasses. Do the same for black women. Offer a description, don't single them out.

How would we ever play guess who ever again???

@hotmeatymilk

But many Black people say it’s racist to avoid using Black when describing someone, because dancing around it suggests being Black is problematic – which obviously it isn’t. So isn’t it fair to say that you find it racist and others don’t, rather than it categorically being so?

This is my train of thought too.

I don't understand what you mean? I'm black, if someone is describing someone to me, I'd much prefer they say "the black lady, white man" etc. If you mean people are describing you to your face as "that black girl", then yes that's offensive as you have a name and shouldn't just be defined by that. I taught my children they're black and that that's a wonderful thing.

Beefmeupscotty If I was referring to the only white person in a meeting full of black people, I would absolutely refer to them as "the white woman" because it is simple and effective as a distinguisher. In the UK it is much more likely to be the other way around due to the country's demographics. I would venture that that is probably why it sounds more common to you that a black person would be singled out based on skin colour.

In majority black or Asian countries it would be common and expected that a white colleague be referred to as "the white lady" for exactly the same reasons of clarity and efficiency.

I'm sure it sometimes happens that people are dicks about these things and say "black" in a tone or way that suggests the speaker views it as a subtle derogatory description, just as they could for "woman", but we all know how much difference tone and intent can make to otherwise perfectly normal speech. It's no good trying to ban people saying, "good morning" because one pervert once said those words to you in a lacivious tone while looking you up and down while liching his lips (true story). There's nothing wrong with the words; there's something wrong with the person delivering them in a particular way with a particular intent.

@Knackeredmommy

I don't understand what you mean? I'm black, if someone is describing someone to me, I'd much prefer they say "the black lady, white man" etc. If you mean people are describing you to your face as "that black girl", then yes that's offensive as you have a name and shouldn't just be defined by that. I taught my children they're black and that that's a wonderful thing.

❤❤❤

How do you describe someone of the same skin colour? Do that.

Sometimes by their skin colour. We live in London and a lot of DD's friend group in school are of ethnically African descent (is that better than black?). Sometimes when she is in the playground after school she is in a group of 4 girls and she is the only one you would describe as white, so it would he an easy way to mark her out if someone were speaking about her but didn't know her name.

You can look for other markers. Sometimes skin colour is an obvious one, it depends on the group of people the person is among that you are trying to differentiate them from.

At the same time, I think I get what OP is saying.

If you met an ethnically South Asian man, you would not describe them as "black", but often ethnically African people will he described as "black" despite having similar skin tones. It's a description of colour that actually isn't the colour of the person's skin. You wouldn't say "the brown man" when speaking about the South Asian man, you would refer to him as South Asian or ethnically Indian (unsure of correct terms), but it wouldn't be related to his "browness". Yet with ethnic Africans they get called "black", when they aren't even black colour-wise.

The same does happen to white people, although sometimes you get "European" although it perhaps should be ethnically European as anybody can come from any continent really. There aren't as negative connotations around whiteness though.

I am guessing OP is wondering why there is the white / black dichotomy but other ""races"" are described by geographical area of their ethnicity, and why the white / black dichotomy evolved that way.

so did JD & Turk in Scrubs get it right by calling each other Vanilla Bear and Chocolate Bear? Or will the crowd always talk & stare?
(And oh poor Caramel Bear.....😭)

As Petridisher says, I honestly think it depends on the context. My DD has made friends with other three girls who play on the same sports team. In that group of four, she’s the only ethnically white girl. If someone asked which girl she was, I think it’s likely she’s be described as “the white girl.” But, I take your point about giving a fuller description, that’s definitely preferable to simply describing some one as Black or white. We’re in the US so there’s huge ethnic diversity.