So if the Minimum Wage increases...

[missbunnyrabbit]

My own wage in a public sector job seems lower than ever. The article I read suggests the public sector pay freezes will end, but I doubt we'll get such a large pay rise!

Aibu to feel like packing my teacher job in to go and work a minimum wage job instead?

In my humble opinion if you work 40hours it shouldn't matter what you do, you should be able to live and pay bills. Not rely on benefit top ups, to pay rent on some scabby moldy pit.

People on the lowest wage need more help.

They work just as hard as any one else. Doesn't matter if your more qualified or think your more stressed. It's not easy on the other side. We all struggle. Of you want to give up your already well paid job. To get a extra 60p a hour your more than welcome.

We work just as much if not more hours and have had a pitiful 1p and 2p rise over the years. Its about time we had our slice of cake.

Let's not forget the cost of living as gone up we won't even notice the rise.

@Ddot

If money needs to be cut it's always the lower end that is shaved never the elite. Too many shareholders filling their pockets. My friend worked in the field (not literally) he then got seconded as a trainer. After several months successfully training he still is on same money but no bonuses so is training people for less than their on. Now apparently its costing too much so he is back and forth, in field and training so bonus messed up, hence no cash again. This country needs a shake up. Minimum wage is bad only because cost of living is ridiculous (rent) how can it be that bloody much for what you get. If you want deluxe then yes you have to hand over the cash but have you seen some of those flats, tiny houses covered in mold falling apart, yet still its unaffordable. Shameful situation

When you say "Too many shareholders filling their pockets" you actually mean normal people with occupational pensions, as it's usually pension funds who are major shareholders in the big companies like Tesco etc. Profits (dividends) are used to pay normal people's pensions!

@Magicalwoodlands

I don’t actually understand what you are wanting to riot in the streets about, *@PickUpAPepper*

Really?

Twenty five years ago having a full time job meant that you could afford to buy a house in most parts of the country. In employment you had guaranteed hours. There were 'zero hours contracts' around - I had one - but they were used to cover holidays and sickness, not as a standard work contract to cover regular business hours. You got breaks and lunch breaks. If you wanted more autonomy in employment, and /or more money to cover luxuries you trained up, either worked your way up the management chain or used education to train into more demanding jobs and got it. There were childcare centres being set up so that women could afford to go back to work. It was becoming accepted that men should take responsibility for children too rather than leave women to make all the sacrifices and the promise was that there would be part-time work available at professional levels to allow work-life balance. Then buy-to-let and globalised finance was unleashed.

Now? Minimum wage is nearly all zero-hour contracts. Every job requires you to be fully flexible, not only to cover holidays if you can, but to not have the same hours from one week to the next. I can go to work in a morning expecting a full 9-6 shift, having paid for childcare to cover that, and be told at 3 that numbers have changed so I have to go home, but I can't recover my childcare costs. Breaks and lunch breaks are absolutely minimal and there is an expectation that you will work through them. There are expectations everywhere, expectations that you will go 'above and beyond' for the job to be considered for permanent status, let alone be considered for higher pay positions, what few are left. Going above and beyond however never does result in promotion - the only thing that does is being friendly with higher-ups. There are no jobs that don't come with the responsibility you used to train up to. The attitudes now seem to be that higher paid people have worked up, not to take more responsibility, but to earn the right to do nothing but throw more shit at lower-paid people and force them to do more. Snobbery abounds everywhere. Pay doesn't cover living costs renting and there is no way to buy if you do not come from wealth and do not have a mummy and daddy to help. Part-time working seems to have vanished in many parts of the country, and men are going back to thinking that children are all women's fault, as is the housing crisis - everything is women's fault for not being nicer to men, and they are free to attack us and invent new ways of doing so.

Finally we're constantly told that we've never had it so good, we have more rights on paper than ever, and need to stop moaning and work more while things get worse and worse in actual real life. Anyone want to add anything else?

You may find it easier in the moment. However overall you will be worse off as a job is more than the wage. Think childcare after 9-5 hours and in the holidays. You will have hardly any annual leave. This will be difficult to cover with shift work and you may have to pay for days that you don't use. Also a problem for police, paramedics and nurses.
You will get minimum pension contributions so will have to work later than if you stayed as a teacher. You often see older supermarket staff for this reason.
Your contract is unlikely to be full time adding to unpredictable shifts to make up the hours, wage instability, fewer holidays, less income to base a mortgage on. You may have to rent and pay really high rent.
Minimum wage jobs are difficult and costly in ways beyond the lower actual hourly rate.
Add to that they are highly competitive. Hundreds applied for aldi when I did and their full time contract was 25 hours, no set shifts and targets you had to meet every month. I had a great time and was super fit but it was a hard job. It would be short sighted imo

I worked out my hourly salary equivalent. It's £9.45!! That's based on my typical 60-70 hour week.

OP are you working 60-70 hours a week for 47 weeks a year as a teacher? Because I suspect your maths is all wrong (which is concerning for a teacher). You work annualised hours, which I have no doubt is tough at times, particularly in the long autumn term, but that is not the same as working minimum wage and only getting 5.2 weeks of leave a year.

My best friends works a full time minimum wage job with minimum statutory t&c. She works in an admin role and doesn't have anyone picking up the majority of her workload when on annual leave so has to play catch up when she returns all for £9.50 an hour. She also has responsibility for orders that involve significant £££. We live in a very 'poor' region of the UK (although house prices are high due to second home ownership) and it's not uncommon to have fairly high responsibility roles on minimum wage. Minimum wage does not equal low effort.

So you are in favour of better pay and conditions for the lowest paid then, @PickUpAPepper?

I am in favour of better pay and conditions for everyone, lower and further up the chain, and a return to focus on the purpose of all jobs.

I did train and work up, only to watch my higher earnings being swallowed up as minimum wage increased and ours didn’t. I am no longer working in that area. I trained again in a different profession (teaching actually), only to be told that yes I could do the job, but that didn’t matter because I don’t socialise enough, don’t “look the part” (ie don’t perform feminity), and have no family connections into the profession. I’m now following the example of the men I work with who do the minimum and spend most of their time bragging or going on fag breaks to discuss who they want to shag next, but whose jobs somehow are never at risk in the same way mine is. All work is a waste of time and effort, min wage or professional level.

I am in my mid 40's and for the past year, have been working as a manager of a charity shop earning pennies above the NMW. It is by far the most physically demanding job I have ever had, and also, relatively, the lowest paid by a long way. I am well educated, with a degree that I supported myself through in my early 20's. I have over 20 years experience in the pharmaceutical industry, working in various roles, including supervisory and middle management, on decent salaries. However, with the exception of one of these jobs (which ended through redundancy due to my department being closed down and responsibility being transferred to the U.S team), I have never found the fulfilment and enjoyment I desired.

Over the past couple of years, I have experienced significant personal issues, including the sudden passing of my mother and a second unexpected bereavement of a very close friend, that have made me question what life means to me, and what my priorities are with regards to my work.

I can honestly say that my career change has been one of the best things I've ever done. Yes, my wage has decreased significantly, and I know I'm extremely fortunate that I'm able to take that hit as DH has a decent salary........and I am physically exhausted most evenings (although, looking at the positives, I definitely get my 10,000+ steps in every day, and it could be viewed as being daily exercise that I didn't get in previous positions, so it has positively increased my activity levels). However, from a mental health perspective, I now feel so much better about myself, which has a positive knock on my family. I know that I'm doing something that helps other people and am giving something back and doing something truly worthwhile. The job is such hard work and you have to manage volunteers who can let you down at the last minute, leaving you to run the shop on your own, customers who are largely lovely and wonderful people, but who can really test your patience, and donations that can vary from being high quality designer items, to rubbish that just goes straight into the bin, but you just don't know what each day will bring, and I love that aspect of it.

So, what I'm trying to say, is that, to me, WHAT you do and your own enjoyment of what you do is more important than the status of being in a high earning career. Just because a role is NMW does NOT mean that the individual is someone to be looked down on or ridiculed...... some of us actively choose these roles and are happy to do so. You don't go into charity work for the money....... if that motivates you, then you need to better yourself, whether that be through education or experience, in order to get a job that is better renumerated. Again, I know that I am very lucky to be able to choose a low paid role, but not everyone who does one does so because they have no choice.

I worked in a factory and lived it I worked with a while soectruif people a woman who passed the bar but couldnt take the cut throat part of it, aeronautical student, dental nurse the list was long, it was hard work but paid reasonably well. Unfortunately I left due to health issues. I don't have qualifications, I dont have fitness on my side so am doing a menial job. I dont mind as I dont rent but if I did I'd be buggered

Bloody hell that went wrong Haha whole spectrum of people

I understand that you feel disillusioned, but I think you'll find this in any industry you can think of. Most minimum wage jobs are tedious and unappreciated and employees are expected to work long, inconvenient hours. I think you would feel more frustrated but with even less of a voice than you have now.

[quote BrilloPaddy]@CherryHug we've had to close over lockdowns meaning we couldn't sell anything; our suppliers have increased everything by at least 15%, and we are literally just keeping our heads above water.

Do we sell a kidney each to pay our staff what they're worth

What a stunningly ignorant comment to make.[/quote]
Soz, forgot to switch on my psychic abilities this morning, so had no possible way of knowing that

I would think very carefully about the pension you would be giving up . As a teacher you have a defined benefit pension scheme which will give you a good income beyond your retirement based on your average wage as a teacher and length of employment. VERY FEW another jobs outside the public sector have this job. A minimum wage job would have no such benefit and you would be much worse off in retirement .

Sooooo many completely ignorant and ill thought out claims on this thread. I honestly don't know where to start with all the points/corrections that need making.

Why don’t you try?

Everyone is entitled to a living wage. But the more training you need for a job, the more you should earn in comparison.
I have no idea how anyone thinks society would work if everyone was paid the same

I don’t think anyone here is advocating full on communism. But under the current system society ISN’T working. You have people doing vital NMW jobs with no stable home relying on food banks to feed their families (in extreme cases).

I think many are disillusioned with the whole x years of training = x amount of money argument. Why should academic studying be the only way to define how much a job is worth financially? Why should someone who parties for three years at uni with a little bit of studying thrown in and does a years postgraduate degree be paid more than someone who does something vitally important to society, works tough and gruelling hours for a job that doesn’t require an academic qualification? Surely other factors should define financial worth eg how important a job is to society?

I would definitely support a proportion of taxes going to vitally important jobs (teachers included) to ensure the salary reflects the worth of the job to society.

OP I do sympathise because I know a really good teacher (outstanding ofsted reviews) who left because it was just too hard and not worth it. I think the teaching problem will only be rectified when enough teachers leave the profession. There will be a crisis and then higher wages will be offered to attract people back to the profession. Exactly like what is now happening with truck drivers who have been undervalued and badly treated for years.

@NoDecentHandlesLeft

BBC is reporting as "living wage" going up? Is this minimum wage, or is it smoke and mirrors?

There are two - minimum wage and living wage

Minimum wage used to be less than the living wage figure, but was revised to be equal

Eg you could earn minimum wage, but wouldn’t be able to ‘live” only on your wage

They were aligned on the basis that minimum should not be less than is required to ‘live’

What went wrong

I do not begrudge the pay rise at all - and OP, hyou wanna jack it in, then do it. I already have.

Physiotherapist for 35 years - and during COVID I just thought -'fuck this for a game of soldiers' and packed it in.

I now work in online support - more hours, but no commute, and I get paid for every minute I work. I've had 3 promotions since May, and now earn more per hour than I did as a physio.That is how little my experience, training and knowledge was valued. [I worked for a charity, my wages were actually slightly higher than NHS, but a poorer pension]

The only person stopping you taking a minimum wage job is you, OP, so I don't get why the angst? At least you have the choice. It's unlikely someone on minimum wage can choose to be a teacher if they fancy it.

@Toomanyradishes

People on national minimum wage frequently have to claim benefits to get by. Thats fucking outrageous, you shouldnt work 40 plus hours a week and still not earn enough to live. You want to be annoyed, be annoyed at the likes of amazon and tesco relying on the tax payers to pick up the bill so they dont have to pay their workers enough to live on, and instead can enjoy their enormous profits

If nurseries cant survive the pay increase they need to lobby the government for higher funding, not expect people to earn less than it costs to live

And if you honestly think you are worth a wage you can live on but someone else should claim benefits because they "just" work in tesco or for amazon then I hope you arent passing that attitude onto the children you teach, the whole country would grind to a halt without minimum wage workers, and none of us is any better than the other. Im quite happy to earn the same as someone in tesco despite my training etc, why the fuck not. Lets all bring each other up together instead of pushing people down just to stand on them to make yourselves feel that much taller

I'm just going to repeat this for the hard of understanding! People on national minimum wage frequently have to claim benefits to get by. Thats fucking outrageous, you shouldnt work 40 plus hours a week and still not earn enough to live.

Cyw2018
Those hours are correct, mine sometimes tops 100 hours - this last year it was 100 hours ave each week. So yeah when you divide a teacher's salary by the amount of hours they put in, often it is below minimum wage.

So I think we all agree 40 hours should pay enough to live no matter the job you do. Good education and training should give you a better standard of living. The problem is their is always someone at the top screwing us all. Share the bloody wealth

Totally agree with this!

So I think we all agree 40 hours should pay enough to live no matter the job you do.

We are really lucky that OH earns enough to keep us going. I can't work full time because childcare for 12 year olds with additional needs is non existent (and childcare for my NT 9 year old isn't sufficient here either!) but even if I did, my £9 per hour job certainly wouldn't be enough to survive on.

Let's estimate that during term if you work 8-6 and then 4 hours each on Saturday and Sunday. That's 58hrs for 39 weeks (2262hrs). If you work for 2hrs each weekday for every holiday week that is another 130hrs.

You should technically also be paid for 28 days holiday. Let's say an average school day is 6hrs (9am to 3pm). That's another 168 hrs.

In total that is 2560hrs. If you were paid £9.50 an hr that would be £24,320.

Some teachers find themselves putting in more hours, and some are lucky enough to work less.

It's not beyond the realms of imagination that a teacher can work so many hours that their hourly rate drops below £9.50. At the top of the payscale though, you would have to be consistently working over 100 hours a week during term time.

Whether NMW is 'doable' is surely completely dependent on where you live?

£9.50/hr for 40hrs is £1,425 net per month, without any CB.

Where we are you can rent a 2 bed apartment or cottage for £450-£500 per month.

So perhaps £1,000 per month (including CB) remaining after housing for a single parent and one child.

I'm sure it's nothing like that in many areas, of course - double the housing costs, etc. - but not out of the realms of possibility here.