So if the Minimum Wage increases...

[missbunnyrabbit]

My own wage in a public sector job seems lower than ever. The article I read suggests the public sector pay freezes will end, but I doubt we'll get such a large pay rise!

Aibu to feel like packing my teacher job in to go and work a minimum wage job instead?

when you think about is if you earn more you pay more tax, NI is going up so your "pay rise" will be negligible and you might be worse off. 😓

As for a teacher suggesting she will go for a minimum wage job instead of a teachers salary I find laughable
Depends what you teach. If you teach primary or secondary school and have taught for several years then you probably earn a decent salary. But if you’re a new teacher, or if you teach in any other sector, you’re lucky if you’re earning a couple of thousand pounds a year above minimum wage.

@Wife2b

Oh come off it you know exactly what I mean. Obviously a lot of jobs are essential to society that are NMW, of course they are otherwise the country wouldn’t run. Why would someone become a social worker or police officer to receive abuse daily if they’re barely paid more than other lower paid jobs? There has to be an incentive otherwise no one would want to do it. Dealing with abuse is no ones idea of fun.

Do you seriously think people in lower paid jobs don't get abuse daily? I can tell you that care workers and retail staff are abused verbally and often physically on an almost daily basis. So why don't they get the money to compensate? Because no one gives a damn about those people that's why.

YANBU
I work in the public sector, child safeguarding.
My son does an unskilled job in a warehouse. He earns only slightly less than I do.

I'm not really bothered about me but it does annoy me when nurses, teachers, carers etc are paid so little. I did hope Boris would realise they need more recognition in their wage packet when he had his own brush with death. It appears not

I think there is sometimes a misconception that people working in the private sector get pay rises every year...?
I've had one pay rise in the last 10 years....and I now earn the similar to a NQT.
I wouldn't swap though, I (mostly) enjoy my job.

I feel ashamed that until my Dad was in a care home, I didn't really know or appreciate what care work involved. I definitely don't think it can be wafted away as a "low responsibility, low pay" job. And I imagine the mental stress is huge.

I certainly couldn't be a teacher or a care worker, but I'd never assume that care was an easier or less stressful sector just because the pay is lower.

Tesco made over a billion in profit last year. That’s a huge huge huge amount of money. They can afford to reduce the shareholders profits slightly

Not sure why Tesco is getting singled out here ...they already pay more than minimum wage. The lowest paid get £9.43 during the week and it's something like £11+ on Sundays

I've worked in a supermarket as a temp after being made redundant from private sector job. Supermarket was bloody hard work- 12 hour shifts - absolutely knackering.
DH is qualified HLTA but can't find a job as such. He works as TA as it's better than nothing but is expected to teach (alone in a class with no support). They don't employ HLTA s because they can use a TA on a lower salary to do the same role. They shouldn't , of course , but they still do.

@GreenLunchBox

Tesco made over a billion in profit last year. That’s a huge huge huge amount of money. They can afford to reduce the shareholders profits slightly

Not sure why Tesco is getting singled out here ...they already pay more than minimum wage. The lowest paid get £9.43 during the week and it's something like £11+ on Sundays

No supermarket pays more for Sunday staff and haven't for quite a while. At least the big four don't, not sure about the others.

Don't worry about it.
Public sector wages will increase but funding to schools won't. I work with so many schools with huge deficit budgets. I think some local authorities will just collapse.

@Marelle

As for a teacher suggesting she will go for a minimum wage job instead of a teachers salary I find laughable Depends what you teach. If you teach primary or secondary school and have taught for several years then you probably earn a decent salary. But if you’re a new teacher, or if you teach in any other sector, you’re lucky if you’re earning a couple of thousand pounds a year above minimum wage.

Yes, but someone in a minimum wage job will still be earning minimum wage in 10 years.

Pay rates rise rapidly with years of service etc as you go through the pay scale for teachers, nurses, etc.

@Marelle

As for a teacher suggesting she will go for a minimum wage job instead of a teachers salary I find laughable Depends what you teach. If you teach primary or secondary school and have taught for several years then you probably earn a decent salary. But if you’re a new teacher, or if you teach in any other sector, you’re lucky if you’re earning a couple of thousand pounds a year above minimum wage.

But that pay will increase and take on TLR or SLT responsibilities in time you could be earning significantly more. Become a headteacher and you could end up on six figures. Let’s face it as a brand new NQT you have qualifications but no experience.

NMW is quite different. The scope for significant pay increases slim.

Your middle example is a strawman. Nobody is suggesting a raise for the richest, but a huge rise to the minimum wage and fuck everybody else is just reinforcing the spiralling cost of living.

As it stands I know a lot of people like your hypothetical team leader who've worked hard to be able to get the security of a slightly higher pay bands which will now be swallowed up by minimum wage while their cost of living increases dramatically to pay for these minium wage hikes.

My middle example was just a reflection of what had been expressed on this thread. People in the middle are unhappy that people at the bottom might get a pay rise and feel they deserve one too. That same logic will be applied by people at the top and the status quo will remain.

It's also why I had written a third example and explicitly said "This is what we should be striving for" which you've completely ignored for some reason.

Your sums simply don't work. Reducing the pay of the few top management won't finance the wage increases for the masses at the bottom. All it will do is make you feel better for "punishing" the people at the top. Typical Labour politics of jealousy and envy.

Oh ffs, it wasn't a fully costed methodology for businesses to follow, just a way to illustrate how we need to reduce the gap between top and bottom.

Denise Coates (bet365's owner/director) earned £469m last year. That's 26,056 times more than someone who works as a customer service adviser for the firm. She could afford to pay every single one of her 4600 employees an extra £80k a year and still take home £100m. That's absolutely grotesque! And, while an extreme example the average CEO today still makes around 250-350 times more than the average worker (note average not NMW). Can you genuinely say this is a fair situation to be in?

Reducing the pay of a few top managers might not solve the issue, but ensuring fair wealth distribution most certainly will. I've mentioned this before but will keep doing so until people realise just how insane the gap between the top and bottom is.

The top 1% of the UK have enough personal wealth to wipe out the UK's national debt AND end homelessness and hunger (in the UK) AND would still have circa £1 Trillion to themselves. Thats just private individuals, not businesses. There's no justifying that level of inequality but I'm sure your typical Tory politics of hatred and greed will have you disagreeing*.

*I don't really believe that but can stereotype just as well as you.

P.s. I've never voted Labour in my life.

But that pay will increase and take on TLR or SLT responsibilities in time you could be earning significantly more. Become a headteacher and you could end up on six figures

But only as the HT of a very large secondary. I was a HT earned around £42,000.

No supermarket pays more for Sunday staff and haven't for quite a while. At least the big four don't, not sure about the others.

Well tell that to my local Tesco. DS got £11 something an hour on Sundays. He only left a month ago to go to uni

YABU - A teachers wage is still a lot more than minimum wage. People on minimum wage jobs often can’t afford to live without some kind of benefit. Universal credit etc. Everything is going up in price gas, food, rent/mortgage payments etc. How are those people expected to stretch their pay packet when it’s already not enough?

@Rosebel I just Googled it and it's time and a quarter on Sundays

@Elephantsparade

I dont think working in a supermarket us easy. But they actually are advertising most of their roles at £9.50 an hour in my local ones anyway. Its mainly care work and nursery work that are actual minimum wage in my town.

Even before the NMW announcement, a friend who works in care had her hourly rate increased from £9.50ph to £11ph. Today, they told the staff the rate was going up to £11.50, plus people working overtime would get £15ph.

They are desperate for staff, have trouble recruiting and even more trouble keeping people. And this isn't in a big city, but a smallish town in rural Suffolk.

And I was wrong, it's not £9.43 during the week, it's £9.55

@Teaandcakeordeath83

I think this govt isn't stupid. Raising the rebranded minimum/ living wage means they get to claw more back in NI. The rest disappears on the increased cost of living and they get to pat themselves on the back for "levelling up". In reality they won't move any of the benefit thresholds upwards to accommodate a "higher" living wage so actually those on the least will lose out more because they'll tip out of the threshold levels.

They claw back a fair bit in reduced benefit payments for those on low incomes, too.

Anyone on tax credits or UC will only be about 25p better off for every extra £1 they earn, after tax, NI and benefit clawback.

Minimum wage work generally comes with the bare minimum statutory entitlements (annual leave, maternity, sickness), and minimum wage doesn't often mean less effort. But if you want to give up your long school holidays in exchange for 5.2 weeks a year annual leave and £9.50 an hour you go for it OP.

[quote GreenLunchBox]@Rosebel I just Googled it and it's time and a quarter on Sundays[/quote]
They got everyone to sign new contracts for normal time on Sunday but if they've changed it back I stand corrected. Asda certainly didn't. I know that as I work there.

@Bucanarab

Your middle example is a strawman. Nobody is suggesting a raise for the richest, but a huge rise to the minimum wage and fuck everybody else is just reinforcing the spiralling cost of living.

As it stands I know a lot of people like your hypothetical team leader who've worked hard to be able to get the security of a slightly higher pay bands which will now be swallowed up by minimum wage while their cost of living increases dramatically to pay for these minium wage hikes.

My middle example was just a reflection of what had been expressed on this thread. People in the middle are unhappy that people at the bottom might get a pay rise and feel they deserve one too. That same logic will be applied by people at the top and the status quo will remain.

It's also why I had written a third example and explicitly said "This is what we should be striving for" which you've completely ignored for some reason.

Your sums simply don't work. Reducing the pay of the few top management won't finance the wage increases for the masses at the bottom. All it will do is make you feel better for "punishing" the people at the top. Typical Labour politics of jealousy and envy.

Oh ffs, it wasn't a fully costed methodology for businesses to follow, just a way to illustrate how we need to reduce the gap between top and bottom.

Denise Coates (bet365's owner/director) earned £469m last year. That's 26,056 times more than someone who works as a customer service adviser for the firm. She could afford to pay every single one of her 4600 employees an extra £80k a year and still take home £100m. That's absolutely grotesque! And, while an extreme example the average CEO today still makes around 250-350 times more than the average worker (note average not NMW). Can you genuinely say this is a fair situation to be in?

Reducing the pay of a few top managers might not solve the issue, but ensuring fair wealth distribution most certainly will. I've mentioned this before but will keep doing so until people realise just how insane the gap between the top and bottom is.

The top 1% of the UK have enough personal wealth to wipe out the UK's national debt AND end homelessness and hunger (in the UK) AND would still have circa £1 Trillion to themselves. Thats just private individuals, not businesses. There's no justifying that level of inequality but I'm sure your typical Tory politics of hatred and greed will have you disagreeing*.

*I don't really believe that but can stereotype just as well as you.

P.s. I've never voted Labour in my life.

It's not the "average CEO", it's the average CEO wage of the largest companies, of which there are relatively few.

The CEOs/Owners of the majority of firms are in small/medium firms and won't be earning anywhere near that.

Unless something is done about the cost of living increases, then raising minimum wage will do nothing to make most of us better off! I'm already on £9.50 an hour and still had to take a 2nd job. Now fuel is at £1.42 a litre and rising daily, I guess I need to look for a 3rd!

@Tessabelle74

Unless something is done about the cost of living increases, then raising minimum wage will do nothing to make most of us better off! I'm already on £9.50 an hour and still had to take a 2nd job. Now fuel is at £1.42 a litre and rising daily, I guess I need to look for a 3rd!

Thing is that it's basic economics of supply and demand. People having more money in their pocket will increase prices as there's less pressure for discounts/cheaper goods etc. Firms having to pay higher wages will seek to increase prices. So inflation is stoked from both directions i.e. consumers having more money and suppliers wanting higher prices.

The country saw massive rent and house price inflation with Gordon Brown's tax credits and unlimited housing benefits - people having more money and the govt paying higher rents just stoked housing inflation.

Pay rates rise rapidly with years of service etc as you go through the pay scale for teachers, nurses, etc.
As I said earlier, only school teachers have a pay scale nowadays. FE teachers don’t have a national pay scale and their pay doesn’t increase. The same applies to a lot of HE teachers and other types of teachers too. Pensions have also been removed in many cases.