Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think only the computer literate can now go on a foreign holiday

307 replies

rookiemere · 24/10/2021 18:46

We're just back from Tenerife and had a wonderful time, but oh my goodness the online forms to fill in were not easy for either Spain or UK, nor was the Randox registration for our PCR tests on return ( in Scotland).

I consider myself to be reasonably computer literate, but I was very grateful for some prompts I found on a Facebook help group. It took me an hour for each passenger locator for, and another hour roughly for three PCR tests ( plus an additional half hour to drive to a drop box as apparently they don't accept Royal Mail boxes anymore).

I get why the documentation is needed, so I'm not against that per se, but the fact it must be done on a device means that some people may not have that and are now forced to buy a smart phone which seems unfair.

You also need to be pretty literate to interpret the questions, so again could be tricky for some.

So my AIBU is, is it right that the form can only be completed online ?

OP posts:
BiddyPop · 26/10/2021 00:45

I had to do similar, but with 2 extra countries due to travel arrangements- I did it all on my phone and relatively straightforward, just painful restyling the same info over and over again.

amsadandconfused · 26/10/2021 01:04

@DriftingBlue

I can maybe buy into people in their 80s possibly not being computer literate, but everyone below that, including people in their 70s have used computers actively for a long time now.
Sorry massively disagree!! Many people regardless of their age might never of had a job/ lifestyle that involved computers ! Don’t be so bloody patronising! I work with 20 -30 year olds who genuinely do not know how to navigate computers!
MercyBooth · 26/10/2021 01:06

Didnt take long to turn on older people again did it? Now society has almost finished with using them for emotional blackmail

MrsPsmalls · 26/10/2021 01:13

Age UK states 4.2 million people over 65 have never used it, and do not own a computer. That's more than a THIRD of over 65s!

Wow that is a huge number of people! And 65 is quite young. Tbh I know no over 80s who can use a computer efficiently. Dad can do his banking aged 84 and can send an email, just about. Mum same age couldn't turn it on. None of their peers even possess one.

They are at a huge disadvantage. And of course no one aged 80 has the same mental capacity as they did 20 years previously, so its not a case of them trying harder and just learning stuff. That boat has mainly long since sailed. Its not ageist to say that all research suggest that we become less able to learn things after a certain (worryingly early!) age

FrankGrillosWrist · 26/10/2021 06:35

I can remember when we used to fill our forms out on the plane, or when we arrived at our destination. The queues at the other end were horrendous as people had no idea that they even had to fill out a form, if you made a mistake you’d have to go to the back of the queue. Last year I took ages doing our forms, some forms are difficult & it’s got nothing to do with being computer literate. I was furious when they barely glanced at them at the airport.

dottiedodah · 26/10/2021 06:42

I think you are right here. A friend who went on holiday said the same as you. Maybe they think only computer literate people are allowed abroad? It was only a few years ago when everyone would go to the travel agents .also ta would have to do a college course and take exams in the travel industry. Now we are all qualified in this field apparently if the owner of said smartphones!

angstridden2 · 26/10/2021 07:08

Spoke to very bright, very computer savvy ex head teacher friend just returned from Europe who said the forms took ages. ‘Paperwork’ closely inspected at European airport.

My phone can not support QR codes.I don’t want another one but I suppose I’ll have to upgrade. What happens if you can’t afford to though? I am a well educated ex professional but I’m quite old. I’ll probably just not go abroad until hopefully this is over.

Original poster
rookiemere · 26/10/2021 07:11

@MercyBooth I don't understand your comment about turning on older people in the context of this thread.

OP posts:
Badbadbunny · 26/10/2021 07:36

@angstridden2

Spoke to very bright, very computer savvy ex head teacher friend just returned from Europe who said the forms took ages. ‘Paperwork’ closely inspected at European airport.

My phone can not support QR codes.I don’t want another one but I suppose I’ll have to upgrade. What happens if you can’t afford to though? I am a well educated ex professional but I’m quite old. I’ll probably just not go abroad until hopefully this is over.

You can buy a PAYG smartphone for under £50 so I don't think cost is a big problem. You don't have to pay a few hundred for the latest Samsung or a thousand for an iPhone.
Badbadbunny · 26/10/2021 07:37

@FrankGrillosWrist

I can remember when we used to fill our forms out on the plane, or when we arrived at our destination. The queues at the other end were horrendous as people had no idea that they even had to fill out a form, if you made a mistake you’d have to go to the back of the queue. Last year I took ages doing our forms, some forms are difficult & it’s got nothing to do with being computer literate. I was furious when they barely glanced at them at the airport.
I agree, a lot of the people struggling would also struggle with paper forms.
Porcupineintherough · 26/10/2021 07:42

@angstridden2 I doubt there are any people out there who can afford to travel internationally but cant afford a cheap smartphone.

Original poster
rookiemere · 26/10/2021 07:50

@Badbadbunny effectively there are two barriers - a hard to complete form and the need to own and be able to use an internet enabled device. At least if a paper form was acceptable then it's just the form filling which means less people are excluded.

OP posts:
flippertyop · 26/10/2021 07:58

but anyone, say in their 60s, 70s and 80s would have been in working age with the rollout of computers and had ample opportunity to use them.

This is such bollocks. I work in the computer industry. 20 years ago people were still buying their first ever family computers in a package. Many many people in their 40s in manual jobs have no idea how to use a PC. My husband is 46 - he did data input but on a programme which just requires you to press buttons. He couldn't use word or excel although he can order online. My parents have worked out online ordering and smartphones. My PIL have not and would never be able to do it.

hellcatspangle · 26/10/2021 08:01

Correct! MIL recently went away on a holiday she booked pre covid that got postponed twice. She always books in person via the local travel agent because she's not very computer literate and has an old phone. The agent promised her she would be ok and they would print off any documents she needed but in the end due to the way the locator forms etc work they couldn't. She had a very stressful trip (it all got sorted at check in but she was in a right pickle about it)

GreenSalon · 26/10/2021 08:24

@rookiemere I think there are two points here as you say and I agree with both - general computer literacy and badly designed forms are going to be a real challenge for some. We’ve just returned from a short family break and tbh, we struggled with the PLF bit. I’m not elderly (yet!) and I hold a CEO position as does my DH and found it challenging. We also somehow hadn’t realised that our youngest had to be on the form - think this was partly because we’d been in France where U12s are exempt from the current covid pass system and had to do it again at the airport. Totally our fault but it was lengthy and stressful. I have a brand new smartphone but even then the form kept freezing, I had to switch from mobile data to airport wifi which took time and at one point logging back in to the form sent me to a rogue site! My DM is 78 and totally computer literate but there’s no way she would have been able to navigate that by herself or as happened to us, at speed. By the looks of things, many many others were struggling too.
The additional costs of travelling as a family of five with teens who are vaccinated here but with only one dose so not eligible for a covid pass or over 12 but not vaccinated yet is a whole other point too….we knew it would be and can afford it but it’s going to limit travel for others and certainly has put us off going on any city break holidays anytime soon. I know these things are all in place for good reason and holidays abroad aren’t essential (I grew up without them) but it’s a shame that lots of people of all ages will likely miss out in the benefits that travel brings, for a while anyway.

KingsleyShacklebolt · 26/10/2021 08:27

[quote rookiemere]@LittleBearPad I don't mean to be patronising to anyone, I know it's a bad choice of words. The internet may have been around for 20 years, but not everyone has smart phones or i-pads, and really you pretty much have to have one of those now to go abroad.[/quote]
I totally agree. My parents are in their late 70s. They do not have a laptop, or a smartphone. They have both been retired for over 20 years, having taken early retirement from teaching. Neither ever used a computer at work. They can't do online ANYTHING, whether that's filling in travel stuff, emailing the GP or even looking up opening times for the supermarket.

I'm sure they are far from the only ones.

Porcupineintherough · 26/10/2021 08:27

@flippertyop it's not bollocks at all. The opportunity to get familiar with computers and using the internet has been around for many years. That's a fact. Yes some people havent done do but that was a choice.

BringMeTea · 26/10/2021 08:29

I totally agree with you OP. It is insidious in many areas. Trying to sign up to a new gp practice recently was eye-opening.

Ragwort · 26/10/2021 08:32

I agree with you, I am so fed up with everyone saying 'iPhones are intuitive' 'using an iPad is easy' etc etc. I do have an iPad and an iPhone' but struggle to use them effectively (apart from Mumsnet Grin).

I did some IT training at work recently, we weren't even given a tablet or anything to "practice" on, just supposed to watch one person demonstrating how to use it and then be able to go back to our jobs and get on with it, I don't think I am stupid, am degree educated, but just find IT totally baffling. I seem to manage my job without the IT side so just ignore it Grin - still have better results than many colleagues !

newtb · 26/10/2021 09:00

Not to mention crap design of systems ans haphazard testing before the systems are released on to the unsuspecting users.

hangryeyes · 26/10/2021 11:07

It is a big issue, whether it is access to a device, being able to follow the ‘intuitive’ set up of most online forms, being able to use a touchscreen or mouse/keyboard easily.

Most people 60+ that I know need to ask someone to help them with buying/booking online, even if they can technically do it they aren’t always confident and competent. My DF is self employed and you would assume he is doing all the tech behind it himself, when usually he is paper based and asking me to muddle through the online parts he can’t avoid. Similarly DM had a professional job, but retired before the technical aspects became mandatory so she taught herself the computer but would struggle to be confident when spending £££ online or complex forms with drop down boxes, lots of scrolling , etc.

A couple of years ago school applications moved online in this region, the amount of 20- 30 somethings parents who struggled with this was high. Some forms aren’t optimised for using on a small phone screen either, without a laptop or tablet it would be difficult to do many of these things.

zafferana · 26/10/2021 11:14

I haven't RTWT, but I agree with you OP. My DPs (in their 70s) find it all really confusing and difficult and my DM doesn't have either a smartphone or a tablet and can use neither! Just as well she travels with someone who does, but my stepdad also found it confusing, despite being mentally with it and computer literate, and I had to talk him through what needed to be done and when. Fortunately, I was going away just a few days before them, so could talk them through it, but how will all those older adults who don't have younger people in their lives cope? They just won't go anywhere, I don't think. It's all too much.

My aunt has always been a really enthusiastic traveller, but she admits that even the thought of all the paperwork and tests makes her too anxious to go, even though I've said I'll help her and even send her email reminders. It doesn't help that the rules about which tests are needed and when keep changing.

Sparklfairy · 26/10/2021 11:16

My neighbour in her 60s is about to go on holiday. She needs 9riif of vaccination via the covid pass. To help navigate as she didn't have the app, I signed up myself so I could walk her through it later.

I'm tech savvy but Jesus christ. To get anywhere near the pass I had to verify my identity, with a photo of my drivers licence that needed all four corners visible, but the app kept cropping it on upload. Then it wanted a video of me saying a randomised 4 digit number, and the app would crash on upload every single time. Its a widespread bug apparently so I had to send the photo to my laptop and do the whole process again there.

I'm not looking forward to helping her do hers today, and I imagine it'll be even harder for her to help her travel companion (who i don't know) third hand...

diddl · 26/10/2021 11:22

Some of us don't want to have our whole lives stored on a phone anyway!

I have an old phone that suits me fine.

It's too old for QR codes though & I don't want to update just for that.

I have a certificate to say that I've been vaccinated, presumably some won't accept that as they don't want to have to write the info down & keep it somewhere!

zafferana · 26/10/2021 11:24

I also take the point that it's not just older adults who may find all the forms and tests a barrier to travel - it's anyone of any age who isn't computer literate for whatever reason.

It's also the way that every country has its own rules and the onus is on YOU, the traveller, to find all the info out yourself, order the tests in time, do them, drop them off, register them online within the stipulated time-frame specific to your destination, print off the requisite forms, possibly take the right tests away with you (we had to do this), order tests for your return so you have the ref. no for your PLF, fill out PLFs for every member of your party, have all the right documents/apps when you get to the airport, having obtained them in an often foreign country where you may not speak the language ...

Hell, I found it stressful, and I'm a capable, middle-aged, computer literate, experienced traveller and multi-tasker!