AIBU to think it’s rather sensible for young women to consider earning potential/ wealth when choosing a life partner?

[OompaLumpaLabrador]

My mum always said that it doesn’t matter how wealthy or otherwise a man is, as long as you love each other. Which I guess is easy to say when, as a young nurse, you fell for a very decent and lovable surgeon ( my dad).

But I’m 43 now, and the life choices friends have made are all coming out in the wash. And the reality appears that those of us who opted to spend our lives with men and women with money have by far the better deal. There’s more freedom around healthcare, education, location, travel and work ( give up, part time, full time). The unpleasant and time consuming household chores are outsourced. There seems less stress in the partnerships because there are no money worries. The partnerships just seem easier. And if it doesn’t work out, a decent divorce settlement means women aren’t left high and dry.

Of course, love comes first. And maybe I’m getting cynical in my old age. But I’m not sure I’ll be giving my daughters quite the sake advice as my mum gave me. AIBU?

I didn't know how much my partner earned until I'd been with him a few years (moved in together so started to share bills etc.) I was also a bit clueless as to what his job actually entailed until WFH started and I realised just how much he did, and how important his work was for the company. It gave me a whole new appreciation for him, I've since found out that he bought and paid for shopping deliveries for one of his team who is high risk of COVID and was worrying about how she would cope during the first lockdown when food was difficult to get. He also sent the same lady a Christmas tree and full decorations after finding out on the work group chat that she didn't have a tree to display in their usual "look at my tree" competition due to money struggles. He has never mentioned this to me, I saw the shops on our Sainsbury's app and I overheard him ordering the tree for her. He has also been mentioned on the news for his commitment and achievements during the COVID pandemic.

I fell in love with him for who he is as a person, everything else that's come later has just been a bonus. If he lost his job tomorrow we'd live on my full time wage and we'd manage, both of us have lived on very little in the past and we are still very careful with our money.

I think teaching our daughters to be strong in their own right and fall in love with a good person is probably the best we can do for them. Maybe I'm just being naive though!

Everyone saying that women should earn their own money. It’s like you all have never given birth and experienced pregnancy discrimination, birth injuries that bench you for months/years on end, motherhood penalty at work, being left to handle childcare because the father won’t step down from his career, and all of the other shit that happens to mothers and takes away their ability to earn. Do you really not grasp that “earning your own money” means fuck all when you can’t earn because you’ve been left holding the baby?

Absolutely not. If you're with a partner for their money, you are totally dependent on them.

I think we are talking about being with a partner because you love and respect them and they love and respect you, but also being wary of choosing a partner who is very mismatched with you in terms of future plans wrt lifestyle and expectations of financial security.

That is not the same as 'being with a partner for their money'.

Being with someone who holds the same values and principles is the most important thing.

Eg Being with a gambler is never going to work out great

@Marelle

Everyone saying that women should earn their own money. It’s like you all have never given birth and experienced pregnancy discrimination, birth injuries that bench you for months/years on end, motherhood penalty at work, being left to handle childcare because the father won’t step down from his career, and all of the other shit that happens to mothers and takes away their ability to earn. Do you really not grasp that “earning your own money” means fuck all when you can’t earn because you’ve been left holding the baby?

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

That's what I meant when I said marrying for lurve is no good if you can't put shoes on your child. Women get dumped with it when they have a baby. Their career takes a hit, etc etc

If your partner earns sod all and is in and out of work what is going to happen?

@PurpleOkapi but why does anyone have to stay at home? I don't have children - architect son and engineer daughter are fictitious examples - but I would want them to marry their equal so that neither partner has to stay at home, and they can both have challenging and fulfilling jobs.

I have a big circle of girlfriends who are all solicitors in London. I think some of them outearn their husbands and vice versa but both parties in each marriage would be classed as higher earners. Every single one of them (and I am talking about a pool of 8 women) has had at least one baby and every single one of them has gone back to work, because they are not in that dreadful position of 'oh well your salary barely covers childcare what's the point'. I expect they could afford to stay at home, but why should they? No one has to sacrifice their career to have children, that is toxic nonsense. Will they suffer barriers at work? Discrimination? Be passed over for opportunities? I'm sure, but none of them just thought 'oh this is me now, I'm a mum, why don't I just quit'.

Honestly these attitudes. I despair.

No-one is pointing out the obvious.

If you are a good looking or beautiful "high status" female with a decent personality, you will be able to attract a high status mate which invariably means someone go-getting, attractive and either a high earner or the potential of such.

If you are less attractive, low status and your personality is not great, you will be stuck with what's left.

It's no good telling all girls to aim high because it's not achievable for all women. If you are a 9 out of 10, you can aim high; if you're a 3, your options are more limited.

Of course there are outliers but generally that's the way of the world.

@THisbackwithavengeance high earning/financial stability does not mean sought after in today's dating market. I have a friend who is a solicitor who owns his own 2 bed house in London (parents helped him buy it). He is well educated and kind but is not very good looking and also has a disability (deaf but has hearing aids). He is absolutely desperate for a relationship and keeps asking me if I know anyone.

But yet i know so many young men who are not well educated/have no hope of buying their own property who have 0 trouble getting girlfriends. And plenty of them have terrible personalities as well. a lot of young women look at looks rather than earning potential or wealth or even kindness.

Yanbu

"What uproar? I think everybody choose their partners according to financial prospects and the lifestyle that they want. That way men won’t marry low paid women and make it the default that they stay at home. "

You honestly think that if a man was to post saying he was telling his sons to choose their life partner based on earning potential rather than love there wouldn't be an uproar??

Of course there would be. Rightly so. The other way around is just as bad.

I also love how we are supposed to judge what someone will earn in the future. I wish I had that crystal ball. Life is way too uncertain. Who's to say that wonderful high flyer partner won't, in 10 years time, decide they hate their job and retrain in something that makes them happier but earns much less? Illness and accidents can limit earning. There is far more to life than money. Is money needed? Yes of course it is, but it's not the only thing that's important.

I haven't read all the replies but YANBU. I honestly think people have very idealistic thoughts about what a relationship really looks like. Love doesn't keep the electric on. Thinking about financial security of / with a partner is just sensible in my view.

This is all very subjective because what one person considers a hood wage looks very low to someone else. Best to teach your DDs learn to live within their means and be careful with money and pick a stable job. Oh and think v seriously about whether they actually want kids. I'm sure no-one is arguing it's a good idea to get with a complete waster (gambler, drug addict etc.) but other than that it's fairly subjective.

I also love how we are supposed to judge what someone will earn in the future. I wish I had that crystal ball. Life is way too uncertain. Who's to say that wonderful high flyer partner won't, in 10 years time, decide they hate their job and retrain in something that makes them happier but earns much less? Illness and accidents can limit earning. There is far more to life than money. Is money needed? Yes of course it is, but it's not the only thing that's important.

I don't think anyone here is claiming that money is the only thing that is important. Of course there are no guarantees in life, but one can still make some kind of judgement as to the probability of somebody's potential career success. Do you think that a 21 year old who has recently been awarded an engineering degree from Imperial college and has just been accepted onto a tier 1 grad scheme with a major oil & gas operator that will train them up to chartered engineer status is not going to 'do okay' for themselves compared to the lad who left school at 16 and has drifted through several minimum wage jobs since? Sure the first person could decide throw it all in and become children's entertainer and the latter person could pull their socks up, retrain and make something of themselves but its unlikely.

I think women who claim that high-earning men will treat their wives like an ornament or a skivvy are just telling themselves that to make themselves feel better. Or they’re basing it on some movie / TV drama or some anecdote of someone they once knew.

In the real world, high earning men are exactly the same as any other men . The exception being, they are more likely to have their shit together and enable you to have more choices in life.

@Marelle

Everyone saying that women should earn their own money. It’s like you all have never given birth and experienced pregnancy discrimination, birth injuries that bench you for months/years on end, motherhood penalty at work, being left to handle childcare because the father won’t step down from his career, and all of the other shit that happens to mothers and takes away their ability to earn. Do you really not grasp that “earning your own money” means fuck all when you can’t earn because you’ve been left holding the baby?

And what happens if the woman decides that she isn't' going to step down from her career, either? Why does the woman have to give in instead of the father? Because society expects it and because she'll be charged with neglect but not him? Different issue entirely.

I accept some women suffer birth injuries which mean they may not be able to return to the workplace. But that wasn't what the OP was talking about.

Life happens. But it's better to be prepared by having decent earnings potential yourself and not just seeing pound signs when someone is eg studying law at university. It doesn't follow that a decent degree follows onto a high paying job, anyway.

The exception being, they are more likely to have their shit together and enable you to have more choices in life

Maybe, maybe not. As I said above, a good degree does not a high earner (necessarily) make.

saf1ya7 I think I agree with you. The high earning men and women I know seem no more likely to treat their partners like an ornament or skivvy than the lower earning ones. In fact, that's not really a pattern of behaviour I recognise at all. Nor do the high earning men and women seem any more likely to be arrogant, obnoxious or excessively materialistic. Their partners often have successful, interesting careers (perhaps because they met at university or in the workplace). They generally seem to enjoy happy partnerships with pleasant partners. Maybe I'm not spending enough time on superyachts or something.

I can sort of see where you are coming from but I think yab a bit u.

When I met dh, neither of us had a bean but I knew that he would give me his right arm if I asked for it. 20+ years on and we are now pretty comfortable but he would still give me his right arm.

I think a person’s character is far more important than their earnings. You see plenty of stories on here where the husband is loaded but the poor wife can’t even afford a haircut. My husband would not hesitate to go without to ensure the kids and I have what we want, and I am the same. Earnings are not as important as sharing.

Both DH and I are high earners but we didn’t start out that way.
Luckily we met, fell in love and it turned out that our attitudes to money were the same. That was the crux of it.
Any financial decisions we’ve always made together and we’ve both always supported each other’s careers.
I don’t have daughters but if I did, the first advice I would give you be to go and get the life you want first.
If you want mansions and a jet set life then go get it yourself, that way when you meet someone, you can decide if their life goals, values and financial attitude matches yours. If they don’t, love won’t save you if you’re worlds apart. It doesn’t matter if a man is a low earner and the woman a high earner, if both are looking at the same goals together as a partnership, and making decisions together.

And what happens if the woman decides that she isn't' going to step down from her career, either?
She’s already on maternity leave looking after the baby. She says “Daddy I’m going back to work, you’ll need to adjust your hours so you can pick up and drop off for half of the week, and you’ll need to be prepared to take days off in case of sickness. He says “No, fuck off”. What is she supposed to do? She has no choice. That’s how women lose their careers.

@Marelle

And what happens if the woman decides that she isn't' going to step down from her career, either? She’s already on maternity leave looking after the baby. She says “Daddy I’m going back to work, you’ll need to adjust your hours so you can pick up and drop off for half of the week, and you’ll need to be prepared to take days off in case of sickness. He says “No, fuck off”. What is she supposed to do? She has no choice. That’s how women lose their careers.

She does what most parents do and uses childcare that starts earlier.

It’s not do much that men consciously stop you going back to work. What happens is, you are making decisions in a different context. For instance, you might have a few children and take the preschool years off. By the time you might get round to thinking about returning to work, it just doesn’t seem worth it because he’s now sold a company or something. You might have earned a good salary and still be capable if that, but is it worth returning full-time, or even part-time for the type of money he makes or loses before he’s had his breakfast? It suddenly feels like peanuts in the scheme of your life and certainly not with the hassle of bringing in nannies for after-school care and all that malarkey. The greatest privilege money buys is that of choice. Even if you do decide to return to work, it’s a choice rather than a necessity. Not is it because he expects you to, or needs you to ‘pay your share.’ This is the difference.

@Marelle

And what happens if the woman decides that she isn't' going to step down from her career, either? She’s already on maternity leave looking after the baby. She says “Daddy I’m going back to work, you’ll need to adjust your hours so you can pick up and drop off for half of the week, and you’ll need to be prepared to take days off in case of sickness. He says “No, fuck off”. What is she supposed to do? She has no choice. That’s how women lose their careers.

If she has her own well paid career, she can of course pay for childcare. And divorce the deadbeat dad as well.

If a woman wants children, should she only consider her sole ability to provide for them, and not the father's?
Well if you check the number of fathers paying no child support and the ones pleading poverty and getting away with a fiver, yes I think that's a reasonable idea.

[quote onlychildhamster]@THisbackwithavengeance high earning/financial stability does not mean sought after in today's dating market. I have a friend who is a solicitor who owns his own 2 bed house in London (parents helped him buy it). He is well educated and kind but is not very good looking and also has a disability (deaf but has hearing aids). He is absolutely desperate for a relationship and keeps asking me if I know anyone.

But yet i know so many young men who are not well educated/have no hope of buying their own property who have 0 trouble getting girlfriends. And plenty of them have terrible personalities as well. a lot of young women look at looks rather than earning potential or wealth or even kindness.[/quote]
But those girls might not be wanting to marry them. Sooner or later they’ll get tired of having no money

Also your friend might benefit from a matchmaker or going to singles events if he has trouble meeting people