AIBU to think this new heat pump policy will just push people towards replacing still working gas boilers

[nosyupnorth]

It's pushing me anyway. The subsidy amount offered per household is only a fraction of the cost of a heat pump and the totally only covers a fraction of the population -- which means they're probably also going to wrap it up in a criteria to limit who gets it to pensioners etc so that normal working people get nothing.

If it weren't for this, I would get maximum use out of my boiler before it gives out and then replace it which is the most enviromentally efficient choice but instead I now feel forced to plan to replace my boiler with a new one while I can still get one, which is surely the opposite of a good enviromental choice.

Have you checked whether it will actually warm your house?

My understanding is they're not great unless your house is already very well insulated.

We had to replace our boiler recently and went with gas because heat source would not have worked for us.

I don’t know what you mean.

If only a fraction of the cost is going to be covered then it will only appeal to people whose boiler is on the way out won’t it? People, with perfectly fine boilers will just keep using them.

Unless you mean the fraction is seven eighths!

Not sure people will replace them for the sake of it. Even with the subsidy it is going to cost substantially more than gas boiler would.

I am not sure they will work very effectively when they are retrofitted to (in my case, a 1960s) older houses. Our boiler is nearly 30 year old and on borrowed time so I am wondering whether to look into replacing everything with Fischer electric heaters and look at a more sophisticated immersion heater for the hot water. I hate gas anyway. know in the scheme of things it is very safe, but you still get explosions from time to time.

Oh I see what you mean - not sure people will replace a perfectly adequate boiler with a new one, because new ones don't last. If we replaced ours now, we'd probably get five years out of it and need yet another new one. Hence why we are still using the old one although it can't be very efficient now.

Thought this only applied to new builds.

It’s not the most “environmentally efficient choice” to keep using an old boiler until it dies, v replacing it with a more efficient boiler.

The (manufacture of) the boiler isn’t the problem, it is the power source the boiler uses.

@berlinbabylon

Oh I see what you mean - not sure people will replace a perfectly adequate boiler with a new one, because new ones don't last. If we replaced ours now, we'd probably get five years out of it and need yet another new one. Hence why we are still using the old one although it can't be very efficient now.

Why would you only get 5 years out of a new one? Lots of boilers these days come with a 7 or even 10 year warranty

Air heat source still requires electricity to run it, you will still need a very well insulated house. The costings are very vague. However I think we are all going to be forced to go down this route eventually.

Heat pumps won't be suitable for all homes.
You need space for one, especially when you work out how much more space you'll need inside for the rest of the kit and HW tank.
DH and I were chatting about them and even though we have a garden front and back and paths at each side, there is literally nowhere to site one.🤷‍♀️
I think if we're still living here when the ban comes into force in 2035, we'll replace whatever gas boiler we have in 2034 and cross everything technology may improve by then, but I don't want any more insulation. My house is too hot in summer as it is.

The embedded emissions in manufacturing a heat pump are much lower than you continuing to use a very inefficient fossil fuel boiler so don't let that bit stop you

There is nothing in there about limiting it to certain sectors of the population - the govt is betting on the cost of installation falling sharply in the next few years so its budget goes much further as less support is needed for each installation.

Costs are likely to come down if there is sustained effort in training people up to fit them adequately - but the govt is very bad at supporting technical training.

In terms of retrofit - they absolutely can work in older or period homes. They will be cheaper to run if your home is as well insulated as possible, of course.

Heat pumps do often require radiators to be replaced with ones that function better with low flow temperature heating - basically much more efficient radiators. You can fit them to an existing heating system as well - I think it would have been a good idea for the govt to ban the sale of inefficient radiators now - why are we still selling such inefficient products in a climate crisis?. People would then be upgrading gradually to better radiators over the next 10 years and then when their boiler is at end of life, it's a much easier switch to a heat pump

Radiators like this: www.dimplex.co.uk/smartrad

@pussycatlickinglollyices

Insulation - correctly fitted - keeps heat out in summer as well. It stops heat moving through your walls and roof in either direction.

You know in the Med, traditional homes have super thick walls? It's to keep them cool in summer.

My guess is your home in summer is too warm because of solar warming through glass windows and doors. Fit some solar shades or awning and keep the sun off the glass - makes a massive difference and is again why Mediterranean homes often have awnings or external shutters....

My house is stone and can't really be very well insulated in the same way that a newer house with cavity walls could.

The garden is built on stone and also I would worry that drilling down might cause subsidence.

Does this mean that even if I replace my boiler in 2034 my house will be unlivable by 2050ish? Won't this affect things like inheritance?

@berlinbabylon

Oh I see what you mean - not sure people will replace a perfectly adequate boiler with a new one, because new ones don't last. If we replaced ours now, we'd probably get five years out of it and need yet another new one. Hence why we are still using the old one although it can't be very efficient now.

Not if you get a decent one. Replaced our ancient Potterton with a Worcester ten years ago and still going strong.

My boiler is so old it's not even a condensing one. I have had an estimate of £5000 to replace it. That includes the extra cost of the new pipework that will be needed for a condensing boiler. If I could just replace the boiler with the same kind, I'd guess it might cost £3,000.

The figures I've read is that an air source heat pump install will cost maybe £10,000. With the grant that comes down to £5000. Still more than the maybe £3000 that it would cost to replace a boiler if replacing with one of the same kind, so I don't think people will be doing unnecessary replacements.

I'm tempted to do it anyway, if air source heat pump means I have air conditioning in the summer. My home office has a 8 foot wide by 8 foot high south-facing window, and gets very hot.

My problem is that I'm in a flat, can't legally make alterations to the outside of the building for the exterior part of the heat pump. And I wouldn't want to make the building ugly, anyway. Nor would I want my neighbours to be allowed to. Does anyone know how heat pump installs are going to work for flats?

@SuperLoudPoppingAction this is Air source heat, not ground source, so no drilling down required. You'd need to replace your boiler with one and possibly replace some radiators.

@pussycatlickinglollyices are you thinking about air source heat pumps that work like a reverse fridge and heat one room, rather than the ones that replace the boiler? Genuine question because I don't know.

@MojoMoon you seem to know about this subject, my new extension is almost finished but can I make any changes at 11th hour? Radiators are not purchased yet.

We agreed last night to replace our boiler in 2031.

You don't replace a perfectly fine working boiler. You'd do it when it is failing and you need a new one.

We had an air sourced heat pump for our large swimming pool and it wasn't big at all.
Why would you need a water tank outside @pussycatlickinglollyices? I don't really know too much about it

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, OP. I’m now ‘pensioners etc’ but I used to be ‘normal working people’. We all get old.

Friends have a very very large house and during its total refurb had heat source pumps installed. They work very well and keep the house and water hot. The house needed stripping back and huge amounts of insulation added to ensure it was able to be sufficiently warm. This isn’t going to be possible for most people - the walls for example are now much thicker in each room.
We are looking to do the same, we have oil fired central heating as no gas where we live. I think our option will be to clad the outside of the house with insulating cladding. Again, not a solution for many.
I’m just not sure how this is going to work in a country with a high % of such poor quality housing.

Basically you can opt for a ground source heat pump which does involve a 150m deep hole
OR you get an air sourced heat pump which I have had and wasn't bug at all and was I stalled on a few hours. That was to the pool not the house so I guess maybe it would be longer to I stall to a house but doesn't seem like a big deal.
I don't think you need to site a new water tank or anything.

www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/heat-pumps

@FinallyFluid

We agreed last night to replace our boiler in 2031.

Yes, I think this is going to be the thing

By 2034 no one will be selling or installing

My concern is that there will be no one to service or repair.

I mean, it seems like it's very common in scandi countries and it's not been a thing about "oh it won't work in all houses or you'll lose wall thickness or you need to strip everything back" etc etc

I think people need to go away and research it properly. Including myself.

Maybe @SprayedWithDettol you're friends got a ground source pump and it would have been different if they chose an air sourced one

the majority of gas boilers are under £2k to buy plus fitting so I think it will be a hard sell , but all we need is gas prices to go through the roof and we all will have a bit more incentive !

Sorry, I also failed to read the OP properly, she wasn't asking what I though she was.

Our boiler is nearly 30 year old and on borrowed time so I am wondering whether to look into replacing everything with Fischer electric heaters

I think electricity costs 3 to 5 times as much as gas, so this would cause a huge increase in your heating bills. The sort of heating you're proposing would be 100% efficient, but the very best air source heat pumps can be 300% or more efficient, because they're not creating heat, they're moving it from somewhere else into your house. So, at their very best, they might be able to compete with gas for running costs.