AIBU to think this new heat pump policy will just push people towards replacing still working gas boilers

[nosyupnorth]

It's pushing me anyway. The subsidy amount offered per household is only a fraction of the cost of a heat pump and the totally only covers a fraction of the population -- which means they're probably also going to wrap it up in a criteria to limit who gets it to pensioners etc so that normal working people get nothing.

If it weren't for this, I would get maximum use out of my boiler before it gives out and then replace it which is the most enviromentally efficient choice but instead I now feel forced to plan to replace my boiler with a new one while I can still get one, which is surely the opposite of a good enviromental choice.

We just replaced a perfectly good boiler for a new one with a 12 year guarantee.

The Govt. is relying on the cost of heat pumps reducing and efficiency in relation to older houses increasing as demand rises to make heat pumps more affordable and practical. Or that hydrogen boilers are developed as an alternative. It's difficult to see a mass take-up of heat pumps without the cost / efficiency improvements. The £5k incentive won't do it as there's only funds for 90,000 homes whereas the Govt. talks of 600,000 installations per year; the additional costs of larger radiators and additional insulation can also be high.

Personally, I'm also wary of the noise they make. The manufacturers play this down, but I know aircon units can be noisy and heat pumps look similar.

There's a need to increase the supply of electricity as people switch from gas boilers to electric heat pumps (and petrol / diesel cars to electric cars). This supply needs to be from green sources, otherwise it's pointless.

There's an element of virtue signalling going on, as Boris wants to parade in front of world leaders at the upcoming Cop26 climate conference as the greenest man in the room. The target is announced, but the road map on how to get there is somewhat vague.

We just replaced a perfectly good boiler for a new one with a 12 year guarantee.

Why?

The manufacturers play this down, but I know aircon units can be noisy and heat pumps look similar.

Aircon units are heat pumps.

I am not using any brain energy on this 'Policy' because:
It is not finalised, it's a wish list
The devices are not wonderfully efficient
The house needs to be insulated to a standard that it is extremely difficult to achieve.
Firstly they need to force builders to install on all new properties.

Have any Govt Departments or Devolved administrations specified the change for what they commission? Scotland?

Changing cars and heating for house in same year is impossible for most families.

We can't afford it Carrie-

Why did the government pay to install oil central heating in my house at the beginning of 2021 if everything is already supposed to change to a different fuel?

@Coogee

The manufacturers play this down, but I know aircon units can be noisy and heat pumps look similar.

Aircon units are heat pumps.

Exactly. And they are noisy, some more than others of course. I can imagine a row or terraced houses or block of flats, all with heat pumps running, generating noise pollution. And being intrusive if a window is open or someone is relaxing in the garden / on a balcony.

Fisher are a scam, don't do it. Internet is full of stuff about them.

I can imagine a row or terraced houses or block of flats, all with heat pumps running, generating noise pollution.

Having spent some time abroad with our aircon unit outside directly below the bedroom window, I have the same concerns.

Our gas boiler is getting on for 50 years old now and my husband has been outside this morning trying to work out the quietist place to put heat pump units if we switch. Nowhere is ideal but apparently it’s possible to build a sound proofing enclosure over them. Drilling down into the ground is another option we are looking at. Quieter and more efficient but around £20K cost.

Quietest

Do you drive an electric or hybrid car @nosyupnorth?

My guess is your home in summer is too warm because of solar warming through glass windows and doors. Fit some solar shades or awning and keep the sun off the glass - makes a massive difference and is again why Mediterranean homes often have awnings or external shutters

Agreed. My home is well insulated it's never cold in winter. Very low energy use as even winter sun heats the house through our glass walls. However, summertime is too hot. Placing big garden parasols in front of the windows stops the sun hitting them - problem solved. Awnings would do it more efficiently I guess.

@Coogee

The manufacturers play this down, but I know aircon units can be noisy and heat pumps look similar.

Aircon units are heat pumps.

Not really. Very few heat pumps are air to air. A small air con unit for a room is actually a pretty decent heat source though when run in heat mode

Not really. Very few heat pumps are air to air. A small air con unit for a room is actually a pretty decent heat source though when run in heat mode

Whether they are air to air or not is immaterial. Unless I am very much mistaken, the mechanism by which they transfer heat from one place to another is called a heat pump.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Do you drive an electric or hybrid car *@nosyupnorth*?

Currently I'm car free (and electric cars are another topic I have a lot of options on regarding the government setting targets without considering older homes or lower income households!) but I'm curious as to why you'd ask?

For most the downfall of a retrofit is sheer cost.
Heat pumps can only heat to about 48 deg. So you need a hugely well insulated, hermetically sealed house. You also need much bigger radiators as the incumbents would have been designated around a flow of 70 -80 deg.

Also with air source the efficiency is often no where near the upper limits stated and varies a lot with ambient temperature. So its not even that cheap to run

Anyway to insulate my Victorian place properly would cost the same as heating it with gas for about 35 years. Heat pumps for the vast majority of housing stock is not really viable

Also forgot to add - the colder it is outside the less efficient an air source heat pump becomes.
So you’re bills will really crank up on a freezing winters night!

So you need a hugely well insulated, hermetically sealed house. You also need much bigger radiators as the incumbents would have been designated around a flow of 70 -80 deg.

You could compensate by running the heating for longer periods.

No-one ever mentions annual maintenance in their calculations of efficiency. A heat pump system apparently needs, like a standard boiler, an annual service. Servicing will take a day, rather than an hour, cost several hundred pounds, and at the moment, hardly anyone is qualified to do it. Just like electric cars, at present a huge issue is the maintenance of all those new technologies.

@BigWoollyJumpers

No-one ever mentions annual maintenance in their calculations of efficiency. A heat pump system apparently needs, like a standard boiler, an annual service. Servicing will take a day, rather than an hour, cost several hundred pounds, and at the moment, hardly anyone is qualified to do it. Just like electric cars, at present a huge issue is the maintenance of all those new technologies.

I don't know where you got this from. It's just not true.

There's very little to go wrong with an ASHP. Ours costs £75 each year and the guy is here for less than an hour.

Ours costs £75 each year and the guy is here for less than an hour.

What does he do?

He checks the unit, whilst it's running, which takes a few minutes. Then he goes into the airing cupboard and checks the valves and the HWC. Obviously there's no boiler so it doesn't take as long. He came last month, I think he was here for about 45 minutes but wasn't actually timing him.

I heard someone say on the radio this morning that you would need a water tank. We have a combi-boiler and hot water as we need it is fantastic.
Does this mean that we’ll have to go back to rationing baths, because the hot water in the tank will run out as it used to with the old electric immersion tanks?

so if the temp outside is like minus 3 how will the heat pump heat the house
disclaimer (no intention of having one ever)

@BigWoollyJumpers

No-one ever mentions annual maintenance in their calculations of efficiency. A heat pump system apparently needs, like a standard boiler, an annual service. Servicing will take a day, rather than an hour, cost several hundred pounds, and at the moment, hardly anyone is qualified to do it. Just like electric cars, at present a huge issue is the maintenance of all those new technologies.

I had an air source heat pump and it didn't need annual service or maintenance 🤷