AIBU to think this new heat pump policy will just push people towards replacing still working gas boilers

[nosyupnorth]

It's pushing me anyway. The subsidy amount offered per household is only a fraction of the cost of a heat pump and the totally only covers a fraction of the population -- which means they're probably also going to wrap it up in a criteria to limit who gets it to pensioners etc so that normal working people get nothing.

If it weren't for this, I would get maximum use out of my boiler before it gives out and then replace it which is the most enviromentally efficient choice but instead I now feel forced to plan to replace my boiler with a new one while I can still get one, which is surely the opposite of a good enviromental choice.

I'm not sure this sort of subsidy will do much to encourage people to move away from gas. I recently moved in to a house with electric storage heaters, intending to upgrade the heating system very quickly. So you'd imagine I would be in an ideal position to switch to a heat pump. But from what I've read, fitting a heat pump and all the piping/radiators etc would be more expensive that getting a gas boiler gas heating system. If I move to a gas system I could get rid of the current emersion hot water tank, freeing up space inside my house. If I move to a heat pump I would need a tank at least as big as that inside and would also lose some of my outside space for the pump. The pumps also seem to be particularly industrial looking, so not really something that will be appealing in a small garden. On top of all that, there are no guarantees that a heat pump will be any cheaper to run than the current inefficient storage heaters. I have a fear that if we fit a heat pump now it will be obsolete in a few years so we will need to replace the whole system again and/or it will reduce the house value.

What would make a real difference would be investment in finding ways to make greener systems smaller and simpler to work

The prices being banded around today are incorrect. As an element of a general refurb @£11k is about right but as a retro fit you'd be lucky to get anywhere near that low.
Ground source are fantastic bits of kit (my main house is heated this way) air source not so much. I'm heavily involved in the heat pump game and some of that grant money will end up in my pocket but I'm not overly enthused by air source as a solution.
I own 2 apartment blocks with 4 air source pumps each and photovoltaics on the roof to power them as much as possible to run a metered whole block heat system.
Unfortunately due to never ending reliability problems we're almost certainly sticking in two large 3 phase electric boilers in each block as back up. Massively regret not putting gas in during construction and individual boilers in the apartments.

@Veiaola

Air heat source still requires electricity to run it, you will still need a very well insulated house. The costings are very vague. However I think we are all going to be forced to go down this route eventually.

We are all definitely going to be forced down this route. If you're younger than 60 you'll see the end of mains gas heating homes in your lifetime.

The current options are electric boilers aka heat pump or hydrogen boilers. Heat pump will hopefully get more efficient as more manufactures up their game. Hydrogen will offer similar capability to gas...however your actual network needs to be converted for you to take advantage of that so it's a logistical nightmare that utility companies are trying to think their way around at the moment. I know there are mixed use boilers coming to market that can handle gas or hydrogen with little interference so that may be a more popular option for homeowners.

The irritating thing about the heat pump boilers is that you need modern style insulation for them to be effective...except new builds from the last 20 years that have this sort of insulation are not built with sufficient space to house all the extra equipment needed (water tanks etc) so older properties will suit the installation of heat pump boilers better than new ones - but they won't be as effective.

For the first time in my life, I'm glad we're not likely to ever own a home. This is not my problem to solve!

Its a shame. We are currently just starting a refurb of an old property with no central heating.

Would be ideal timing to put one in - but with everything else we need to pay for (double glazing, roof insulation etc) I cant justify spending that much extra on whats essentially a boiler.

I don’t think there’s anything that live in small terrace houses can do here.

I recently got a quote just to upgrade the large double glazed windows (60s build) - that was nearly 20k! So unless significant subsidies happen, I feel like I don’t have much option but to keep burning gas.

@berlinbabylon

Not sure people will replace them for the sake of it. Even with the subsidy it is going to cost substantially more than gas boiler would.

I am not sure they will work very effectively when they are retrofitted to (in my case, a 1960s) older houses. Our boiler is nearly 30 year old and on borrowed time so I am wondering whether to look into replacing everything with Fischer electric heaters and look at a more sophisticated immersion heater for the hot water. I hate gas anyway. know in the scheme of things it is very safe, but you still get explosions from time to time.

We installed an ASHP to our 1960s house 3 years ago. It's brilliant, works really well and the house is warm. Our house is double glazed and has CWI. I wouldnt install one in a single glazed property.

For those of you worrying about space - check on Sunamp heat batteries. A much more compact way of storing heat (which is what a hot water cylinder is for)

@Indecisivelurcher. Definitely not an expert but part way through the process of getting an ASHP, complicated by being in a conservation area.
If you've not bought radiators yet, getting low flow temp ones seems an excellent idea. You'll need to bear it in mind with your boiler settings - often gas boilers are set to 65c and you'll probably be best turning that down a bit as the radiators will be so efficient. The good news is that will also save you money - heating water to a lower temperature uses much less gas so lower bills

Just to add to my post...biomass and ground source have been viable boiler options for years as boilers. In terms of options moving forward the air heat pump and hydrogen are the ones companies are seriously considering to be the best options for Net Zero ambitions.

I suspect that air source heat pumps will be impractical, and that the best solution will be to just have such massive amounts of carbon-free electricity that prices will fall and we can just use straight-forward electric heating.

I see there is now a commercial project under way to make one pipe-dream of mine come true: getting solar power from the Sahara. The company is going build a massive solar plant in the south/middle of Morocco, and ship electricity to the UK via high-voltage DC lines under the sea. (This is actually perfectly practical, although they are having to build their own factory in Scotland to make the cable because the amount they need is five years annual output from all factories in the world. And they want it sooner than the factories could make it, anyway.)

Interestingly, the solar plant will also have a considerable number of wind turbines, because that part of the world has a late-afternoon to evening wind, and the wind turbines mean they can continue producing electricity during the UK evening, when household demand peaks.

Apparently the cables will land in the UK on the Devon coast, and supply 8% of UK electricity requirements. Once the project has proven itself, hopefully a lot more similar capacity will be added.

@MojoMoon thanks, am looking at ones that achieve the BTU at delta 50. Does that cover it? Honestly it's been quite the mine field.

Im already stressed out with how much this is going to cost. Im also worried about angering my neighbours. Im in a mid terraced older property. The noise from a heat pump will drive them ( and me) mad. I foresee an increase in noise complaints, as if it's not bad enough that no one now has carpets on floors. This scheme has not been thought through. From the research I have done heat pumps are useless at heating your house and noisy. Have the people who invented this system lived through a severe Scottish winter? They are having a laugh. Meanwhile China and other countries merrily go on their way polluting the world. Ordinary people here will be bankrupted with these schemes as I know I wont qualify for any funding. Many people are suffering fuel poverty right now, how are they expected to fund this?

The garden is built on stone and also I would worry that drilling down might cause subsidence.

Then use an air source heat pump, although if your house is also sitting on stone the chances of subsidence are virtually nil.

@Gothichouse40. Air source heat pumps are common in Scandinavia and it's quite cold there in winter.....

The Viessman ASHP I am looking at has an overnight noise level of 35db.
That's about half the noise level of a washing machine or dish washer. To qualify for subsidy the max decibel allowed is 42db.

I am on a compact terrace with small back yard too.

If you want to do some research, I'd recommend the Energy Saving Trust.

Probably worth flagging also the £5k subsidy scheme announced today is for England and Wales.
Scotland is expected to have its own one out shortly, probably just before the COP26 summit in Glasgow

I think that given moat people struggle with the cost of a gas boiler, this can only go ahead if prices reduce substantially.

My dad lives in New Zealand, most houses there don't have gas central heating. He has a reverse fridge type air source heat pump. Others have the electric boiler type ones that heat rads. They have things like heat lamps in the bathroom and electric heated towel rails. Obviously it gets very cold there.

Our house is 250 years old and is as insulated as it can be. It's impossible to heat, we're always cold in winter as it is and have to have supplementary heaters all over the place. We've found the most effective are electric oil filled radiators which we can wheel around as needed. I already have one in regular use this year, and that's if I don't use the sitting room at all, but do everything in the kitchen - online stuff (banking, MN, shopping, research etc), hobby, tv, radio - all in the kitchen now.

My friend just bought a recent barn conversion with excellent insulation and a heat pump and lots of modern wondrousness (the controls take up a whole room). I have to admit to envy!

I investigated it last year as I have just had my boiler replaced. I have got a well insulated house. My previous boiler lasted 20 years. Key for me was how long it would take to get back the difference in cost between an air source heat pump and a traditional boiler. I can't remember the figure now but it was longer than I expect to live in the house. There was also the issue that I know a couple of people who have them and they all say that additional heat is needed.

They are enormous great ugly buggers that not everyone will have the space for. Total eyesore in your garden.

And if you don't have the right infrastructure/insulation then a total waste of money.

Put them in new builds by all means but I bet they won't work for the vast majority of British homes

Are we going to have enough electricity generating capacity to power all these heat pumps? We'll also need to charge up our electric cars at the same time.

YANBU op like the stupid car scrappage schemes that junked thousands of perfectly serviceable cars.

Are we going to have enough electricity generating capacity to power all these heat pumps? We'll also need to charge up our electric cars at the same time.

That’s not a problem. We can recommission our coal fired power stations.

The UK fired up an old coal power plant on Monday to meet its electricity needs.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58469238

I agree OP. It will also increase the supply of knock off replacement parts to go inside boilers to prolong their life, it's an accident waiting to happen imo

I wouldn't worry about it. By 2035, I am quite confident that our existing gas infrastructure will have been adapted for hydrogen. Over the next few decade or so, the supply of gas will be mixed with a proportion of hydrogen, until we have full hydrogen supply. Heat pumps will be limited to the early adopters only, or those going "off grid“. Same with cars. I think electric cars will be the eight tracks of their day, as electricity becomes ever more expensive to generate. Hydrogen fuel cells will be the answer.

I wouldn't worry about it. By 2035, I am quite confident that our existing gas infrastructure will have been adapted for hydrogen.

Hydrogen fuel cells will be the answer.

Where is all the hydrogen going to come from?