To think this class should be closed?

[Jenster03]

I'm a part time primary teacher and in the space of two weeks, 14 children have tested positive out of 30 in my class.
We've had 2 or 3 return in that time, but more and more are testing positive. Now my teaching assistant has it.
AIBU to think we should be sending the class home and remote learning? How would you feel if you were a parent of a child in my class?
Oh, and I'm pretty anxious about my level of exposure too!

@ImUninsultable

My business shut down because of lock down. I lost earnings for a year and a half. I didnt qualify for any if the supprort grants, like thousands of others. But I guess that doesnt matter to all the hysterics who want to keep everything closed and sit in their houses just wishing the virus will go away.

It wont. This is life. We take sensible precautions. We get vaccinated. We get boosters. We take LF tests twice a week. We wash our hands regularly. We stop touching our faces all the time. We maintain social distancing and masks.

But we dont start closing things up again because it changes nothing. We end up right back here again, over and over. This is life now. Get used to it.

Well said. My daughters class are dropping like flies but they won't close the class. If they do they'll just be back in the same position when the reopen it. Absolutely no point x

@PickUpAPepper

Are you happy to pay everyone’s mortgage and bills whilst the parents take time off work to educate their children, until their age group get vaccinated and what about the parents who don’t agree to their young children receiving an experimental vaccine?

That's what a lot of this debate boils down to actually - the terrible pressures caused by the need we all have to work longer and longer hours in lower wage jobs to earn some living space in an overpopulated country run to serve the hereditary rich.

If we were in the same conditions as the 60s, with plenty of work available to walk into, much lower pressure, and housing for the taking, would people be more reluctant to force health risks on to others?

Sadly it does!

Without our jobs, the need to live and survive isn’t possible, or sustainable in this current climate.

@TheKeatingFive

What are these magic safety precautions of which you speak???!!!

I'm talking about the safety precautions you're referencing re RTAs.

They don't prevent death. Or serious injury.

Our children are probably much more at risk on the roads than from covid. But humans are shit at assessing risk and can't process that. You're proving that point with every post.

Therefore, Covid and kids is not LIKE RTAs. Therefore bad analogy.

Therefore, Covid and kids is not LIKE RTAs

In what sense?

Both have a small chance of killing/seriously impacting children.

With RTAs the risk is probably higher. Yet we gloss over that risk every single day.

[quote ImUninsultable]@unvillage

There isn't another option. It isnt going away. This is life now. There just a fact. There are plenty of facts about life which I dont like, wish they were different but... they're not. It's the way it is.

No one, anywhere in the world, is going "yay, this is life now."

The delusion around this is unbelievable. If you're pragmatic about it and simple admit that this is life in covid world, you get people jumping up accusing you of being quite happy, not caring about anyone else, just wanting your kids out of the house, and all the rest of it.

No. It's just that there isnt another option. Covid is here. That's all there is to it.

We cant close classrooms for a couple weeks every time numbers are high because it isnt one classroom, it'll be hundred. So that's furlough, grants, jobs at risk, income cuts etc. All on a rolling schedule because it isnt "just one classroom". It would be constant. Not possible.[/quote]
Reminds me of this

@VividGemini

Oh, just grow up.

@justustwoandmoo - one school I know of has closed for three weeks (following consultation with PHE) as there aren’t enough teachers well enough to be in school to teach or teach remotely. Primary school.

I work in a school, and often people (and the government) forget schools are not just children and teachers. It is a work place with so many more staff than ‘just’ teachers.

Lockdown now won’t work I get it. It’s much like shutting the gate after the animals have escaped. What I feel needs to happen is rethinking on sick leave/caring for a sick person whether with Covid, flu, D&V or even a cold.

So many parents are penalised if they have to take care of a child who is ill, so they have to continue sending a child to school. So many parents send their children to school doped up on Calpol hoping they can make it through the day, they have no choice. There are a few parents who don’t want their child at home as they are ‘hard work.

We need to encourage people to stay home when ill and stop this whole mantra of ‘carrying on’. This however would take an entire societal change. This of course won’t happen so we’ll just muddle on crossing our fingers that if we get it then it will be mild and those who get seriously ill or die will be someone else or someone else’s family member.

Pubs are open, airports are full - it is unacceptable to close schools.

If anything had to happen, all of those other activities would have to close first.

Adults are cramming onto trains and tubes - this is childrens lives that matter here - not the risk from Covid which is non existent in primary age children or in vaccinated teachers - but their lives and mental health from missing school.

Teachers demanded to be vaccinated so they could re open schools - does anyone else remember that? Now the adults are vaccinated and it is circulating among young children who are usually totally symptom free - that is what we need to happen.

The whole thing is crazy. I'm a nursery nurse, surrounded by coughing children. There's hardly a child that isn't coughing or has a streaming nose. We have very close contact with the children - feeding, cuddling etc. I tested positive with Covid at the weekend, so that's a class full of children who are now close contacts. In my house 5/6 of us are positive, 2 very symptomatic. One of my children have tested negative. School
want him in class regardless as they have to follow rules. His class already has a high number of covid cases. We live in a small house so no keeping away from each other. It's just going to be never ending.

It's not 'never ending' - it's a virus ciruclating as bugs do every winter. There is no zero covid - it's a fantasy. We don't close schools every winter when flu knocks out whole classes - which I remember very well happening pre covid - I remember a virus knocking out the teacher and half the kids one winter in my sons school.

nobody talked about closing down the rest of the class.

In Australia and NZ they are now accepting they will have covid ciruclating just as we do here once they open up. The vaccine does not stop people passing it on - it stops people ending up in hospital. There is no eradication we have to live with it.

I work in a school and I'm sorry but I think YABU. COVID isn't going anywhere and it's safer to contract it as a child than as an adult. I don't think putting off the inevitable helps, and a scientist on the news this morning was saying that more exposure to COVID will help the vaccinated stay protected as it'll keep the COVID antigens relevant to the immune system.

I’m sure anyone on here suggesting this is fine and you should just get on with it are not teachers in a classroom of children all day. I’m a teacher but currently on maternity leave and i’m so grateful that I am! It seems cases in every school are just allowed to spiral out of control now and nothing is done to prevent it 🤦🏼‍♀️

@TheKeatingFive

Therefore, Covid and kids is not LIKE RTAs

In what sense?

Both have a small chance of killing/seriously impacting children.

With RTAs the risk is probably higher. Yet we gloss over that risk every single day.

Actually we ve spent about 100 years steadily improving cars and roads to reduce RTAs. You are right in one sense.... we need to have a conversation about risk appetite and how much death we are willing to accept. There is an acceptance of a certain amount of death on the roads.

But! The reflection on safety in the context of accepting a certain amount of injury and mortality that we have both stated happens in the context of road safety HAS NOT happened in schools. There is literally nothing. No reflection. No safety measures. Therefore we are just accepting whatever injury / mortality that comes.

So bad analogy.

The obfuscation is unhelpful. Just because we accept a certain level of risk in one area (where we have worked very hard to lower that risk) doesn’t mean we should accept risk of very poor outcomes in another area where we have done nothing to lower that risk.

@VividGemini that is an unfair response to a reasoned point. Every year we see around 10 000 people die of flu - thousands die in car accidents - many many thousands of people die of diseases related to unhealthy living such as obesity diabetes heart disease. Death is indeed part of life.

The closures of schools and the wider absolutely brutal conditions of lockdown were incredibly damaging to our society in particular our physical and mental health.

A study done in Bradford found that some children literally barely moved physically during lockdown - particularly those in poorer households - lockdown made kids sick and it made adults ill as well - it will have decreased life chances for many.

There is no 'free' solution here - public health acknowledges this. I really loathe the attitude that lockdown and the measures that stop covid spreading are 'morallygood' and keeping schools open and life functioning is 'morally bad'. It is really not that simple.

Let's all accept it's a difficult situation and after multiple lockdowns we need to try and avoid that damage again.

No it's not just about childcare or to keep the economy going. I think children are at much greater risk to the rest of their lives when they miss large amounts of education, social interaction, MH or they loose their homes, families break up because of COVID rather than the chance of catching long COVID. Even more so for my dcs as they had covid with no symptoms. What about those children who are vulnerable when they aren't at school, those in abusive homes which aren't safe, or are neglected and live in poverty? Where school is the only safe place they have, the only place someone is looking out for them, the only place they get a hot meal? What about their MH at being at home for so long? What about the health problems of periods of no exercise and physical activity?

No one seems to care about those vulnerable children as long as vulnerable adults are protected. There are many layers of this, it's not just about being selfish and uncaring because you don't happen to think continuously shutting down for those vulnerable to COVID, there are other things you can be vulnerable to.

I am concerned about my dd 6 learning progress, to me this is her first year in school she has missed the whole foundation set in the early years of school, she has missed the basics, she has missed the learning through play.

She is behind in her learning and despite trying very hard with home schooling she has huge gaps. I am working with her at home to try and bridge the gap. There are many like this, she's lucky she has parents who have the means and attitude to do this. We shouldn't have to though but there it is. We desperately want her to catch up or she could always be behind effecting her life choices in the future. Many children are left behind from this and don't have parents who have the means or the attitude to support them in catching up. But oh well! Never mind as long as those minority are ok, who may or may not have died of covid or may or may not have got long COVID.

@BeardyButton I see lockdown as like traffic and cars actually - we needed it at the time but now we see how incredibly damaging those measures were and we need to keep things open.

Yes we mitigate against car accidents - although there is not much mitigation in this country against pollution and my kids go to a school very heavily affected by nearby roads. Most cars that drive by have a single driver in them and the road is gridlocked much of the time - so let's not pretend that we have a society constantly protecting children from the effects of cars.

Many public health experts have pointed out that children have suffered huge damage from the mitigation against covid ie. lockdown and closures.

Children do not get sick from covid on the whole and schools need to be open - the bubble system caused immense suffering to kids - my own daughter ended up having mental health support after 4 periods of isolation - she was banging her head on walls. It is not cost free to close classes.

If you mean we could have more outdoor learning then yes, great - but if it means bubbles and constantly sending kids home - I say enough is enough I"m afraid

Long back in lockdown we could have been really innovative and used young people (ie 20 somethings) who were all stuck home when Unis closed and got them running outdoor learning in parks so that kids were not stuck at home.

I want to know why people who call for mitgation measures were not calling for children to be allowed to play with friends outdoors last winter when it was illegal - that was a cause worth fighting for.

Just because we accept a certain level of risk in one area (where we have worked very hard to lower that risk) doesn’t mean we should accept risk of very poor outcomes in another area where we have done nothing to lower that risk.

But outcomes for Covid aren't 'very poor' for children compared to the other diseases or causes of injury/death that are out there.

No - in our school they’ll only close the class when there are 5 cases as that is deemed a mini outbreak and must be reported to DofH.

@TheKeatingFive

Just because we accept a certain level of risk in one area (where we have worked very hard to lower that risk) doesn’t mean we should accept risk of very poor outcomes in another area where we have done nothing to lower that risk.

But outcomes for Covid aren't 'very poor' for children compared to the other diseases or causes of injury/death that are out there.

They aren’t very poor compared to adult outcomes Covid. They compare to measles and polio..... not great I’d say!

And we are still compiling evidence of long Covid outcomes. Doesn’t look great either.

And we are still compiling evidence of long Covid outcomes. Doesn’t look great either.

The data on long covid is a shit show. Until that's sorted out, it's impossible to say.

They compare to measles and polio..... not great I’d say!

How about compared to meningitis, childhood cancers, RSV, pneumonia, RTAs, accidents, etc, etc?

It's rife around us now and most kids I know have had it over the past month. None have been ill for more than 2 or 3 days. Double vaccinated adults similarly OK. I have it at the moment (day 3) and if it wasn't for Covid isolation protocols I would go for a run as just feel like I have a mild cold. I know it's not the same for everyone but it's more the pain-in-the-arse factor than life-threatening illness now. Have cancelled a half term holiday and son has missed a milestone event but am almost relieved we've finally got it and can get it out of the way.

@TheKeatingFive

And we are still compiling evidence of long Covid outcomes. Doesn’t look great either.

The data on long covid is a shit show. Until that's sorted out, it's impossible to say.

They compare to measles and polio..... not great I’d say!

How about compared to meningitis, childhood cancers, RSV, pneumonia, RTAs, accidents, etc, etc?

Ya! I wouldn’t bring my kid to a school I know has meningitis either. But thx for making my point for me!!!!!

My grandson attends a rural school - 60 pupils - 3 classes- 4-11 age range.
He took Covid home to parents and 2 sisters. He is 8 and has asthma, got covid badly. Sisters 10 and 6 ( in different schools ) both quite poorly. Mum and Dad - just like a bad cold.
About 2/3rd of the school had it at any one time,
County would not let the Head close the school and then relented by which time most children had had it and then the school was closed for 3 days to deep clean and all children to test.
This did mean that that those children who had been off still had to have further days off.
I feel for the staff in that kind of situation where masks are not worn by the age group spreading Covid.