To think this class should be closed?

[Jenster03]

I'm a part time primary teacher and in the space of two weeks, 14 children have tested positive out of 30 in my class.
We've had 2 or 3 return in that time, but more and more are testing positive. Now my teaching assistant has it.
AIBU to think we should be sending the class home and remote learning? How would you feel if you were a parent of a child in my class?
Oh, and I'm pretty anxious about my level of exposure too!

@gingercatsparky that’s completely fair enough - I just thought that your post was saying that there mitigations were in place and that we couldn’t achieve lower numbers. Apologies! I misread your point. Which I guess is that your school did quickly respond to cases and this seemed to have worked.

@gogohm

And the parents of the well children are meant to magically get time off work how? Furlough is long gone. If kids are well they should be in school

Around 50% of transmission occurs in asymptomatic people, including children. If you let uncontrolled transmission happen in schools then many more children will eventually get covid and many more parents will have to be off of work. So lowering transmission is always a win / win. Less time off, less parents having to take time off. Isolating and quickly responding to a positive case will always benefit.

There is also an option to antigen test and asymptomatic child every day if they’ve been a close contact.

@ThirdElephant

I work in a school and I'm sorry but I think YABU. COVID isn't going anywhere and it's safer to contract it as a child than as an adult. I don't think putting off the inevitable helps, and a scientist on the news this morning was saying that more exposure to COVID will help the vaccinated stay protected as it'll keep the COVID antigens relevant to the immune system.

So not only did children miss school for adults, they now have to catch covid so they can act as cost-free (to govt) boosters?

Meanwhile no mitigations in schools to help protect children. Have you had your CO2 monitors yet? HEPA filters? Or just the hand sanitiser and open the window if it's not too cold.

@CherryBlossomWinter mandatory lft tests twice a week would be a better precaution taken in school - many parents are not doing them. And masks when moving about in doors at least as in many countries. Daily tests for those with known exposure too ... anything to keep kids in class. All the teens at work have been vaccinated, obviously not an option for younger ones but ours are getting two doses because the volunteer with the elderly.

If you are anxious about your exposure level and are fully vaccinated then it's time to think about a new career.
This is our reality now and children deserve an in school education.
I'm convinced certain people want to keep up the drama forever more.

@gogohm I agree with all you are saying - lft it would be a great way to keep cases low, but also keep kids in class. Uptake is low. It’s such a shame as what is effective is quite a small list, it’s not that hard to do, not that expensive and won’t close a class down. Most over 12s in Europe have been vaccinated well before UK. So much harm has been done I think by ignoring schools and saying that there is no risk whatsoever. I wonder whether that is one reason that lft uptake is low? If you don’t see the point, why do them?

The point is every sector carries a risk throughout the pandemic, teaching, retail (supermarkets especially), doctors/carers/nurses. We can’t shut everything down that poses a risk, put sensible measures in place by all means but other than that, there is little else we can do.

Other than that, scientists are now saying that exposure to Covid is the best route, natural immunity has been shown to provide is with long lasting immunity.

I’m wondering what the point of isolating at all is, if siblings are allowed out as normal. Two of my three are now positive but you wouldn’t know, no symptoms, but we were testing as close contacts. So now they are stuck at home, absolutely fine, while their sister is allowed into school as she’s testing negative. But likelihood is she will test positive at some point, by which time she’ll be a close contact for her class and it will spread around the school further anyway. So what was the point in the other two isolating. They are fine but missing two weeks of school, sports clubs, ballet, Cubs, rainbows etc. I think we need to get to a point where we just accept it, stop testing kids at least, and just keep them home if they are ill. My ds is bemused that the last two years of lockdowns are to prevent him from getting…this? Which is nothing to him!

@Hyly68 I completely agree with you. However schools are not doing everything they can do. In fact most schools are doing almost zero, because they’ve not been given clear public health guidance. Public health are doing almost zero in schools also. That is the problem. There shouldn’t be outbreaks in a classroom, because good ventilation + HEPA filters + quickly isolating a positive case (+ masks + antigen tests well used in the right place) would mean very, very few schools had transmission within classrooms.

It’s so frustrating as these actions aren’t that hard to do. And they aren’t being done, or only being done by a school going against advice and introducing measures once the horse has bolted.

@OkOkWhatsNext you are so right. It’s so obvious that a family should at isolate, or if they really can’t antigen tests daily for a week. I think part of the problem is that people are being told that isolating isn’t really that vital, that we are all going to get it anyway etc so what’s the point. And if we are vaccinated then there is no real harm. Also lots of ‘silly’ restrictive rules that even government didn’t adhere to, it’s completely lost trust.

@Hyly68 also people I think weren’t advised well about the level of risk.

Shops are pretty safe to be honest. For workers in small spaces, who are there all day, best to wear a mask. If you just popped in for 10 minutes then it’s not going to be a high risk at all. But it’s nothing like the risk of…

Indoor dining - one of the highest risks out there. Lots of talking, small spaces, no masks. However with HEPA filters and ventilation, could be minimised.

Healthcare - very high risk but FFP2 masks are so brilliant, that the risk for most if very small.

Schools - completely ignored as if there is no risk, falsely saying ‘children do not transmit’ which was from studies done over lockdown on very small class sizes and not delta variant. They are moderate risk - but of course level goes up with higher levels of circulating variant.

[quote gogohm]@CherryBlossomWinter mandatory lft tests twice a week would be a better precaution taken in school - many parents are not doing them. And masks when moving about in doors at least as in many countries. Daily tests for those with known exposure too ... anything to keep kids in class. All the teens at work have been vaccinated, obviously not an option for younger ones but ours are getting two doses because the volunteer with the elderly.[/quote]
There is no way you can make lateral flows mandatory for under 10s.

Its an invasive medical procedure.

You are talking about removing consent.

@RedToothBrush yes lft are much more able to be used for older age groups, you are right. They are an ‘additional’ measure which can be very effective but it’s a good point that not all children will tolerate them. However mask wearing is well tolerated even by younger children in most countries, for example, so sometimes it’s an adult perception that is the barrier.

[quote CherryBlossomWinter]@RedToothBrush yes lft are much more able to be used for older age groups, you are right. They are an ‘additional’ measure which can be very effective but it’s a good point that not all children will tolerate them. However mask wearing is well tolerated even by younger children in most countries, for example, so sometimes it’s an adult perception that is the barrier.[/quote]
Well ive no experience of my child screaming and crying with a mask but i have when taking a test.

I can assure you we aren't the type to shy away from stuff. The wretching and the 'stop it' were a clue...

... Dh and I have both said we won't be testing unless we absolutely have to and definitely not as a 'just in case' measure.

We would pull him from school and kick up a fuss if the government went down this route.

Forced invasive medical procedures with the coercion of being barred from school are unlikely to be lawful as they break consent rules.

I'm sure someone would take it to court.

The problem for me is when we talk about closing classes/schools and going to remote learning sometimes it's done without considering the harms to children; as though it's a neutral, easy solution. The risk to many children's mental and physical health and education through repeated school closures and isolations is immeasurable. And I say that as someone who works in school and has just gone back after having CV. Although in all probability I caught it from my own DC not the ones I work with! I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it's making more children miss more school.

[quote Hyly68]@BeardyButton you didn’t answer the first question?

You seem to be hellbent on others risking lives by being at school, what do you think doctors do everyday?
Should we send them home too, as surely it’s not fair they’re putting their families at risk too, after being exposed to Covid? PPE or not, many have still got Covid, my nurse friend was another who ended up passing it on to her husband and daughter, even though she was given PPE on every shift. Should she have not gone to work and neglected the care of her patients?
The point is, where do you draw the line?

I’ll ask again, what is your solution to the high levels of Covid at school?[/quote]
Not hellbent on anything. Just trying to mind sick kid and dipping in and out. What would I do? Well I ve listed numerous times the measures that should be in place to try and make schools safer. All haven’t been done.

Schools have a safeguarding obligation. Knowing that kids within the schools are almost certainly contracting Covid - well it’s hard to see how that’s covered in safeguarding.

Once again the analogy with doctors is obtuse. No one is in “loco parentis” for a doctor. Doctors have access to full ppe. I can almost guarantee you there isn’t a doctor out there who, with no ppe, is sitting in front of 30 coughing patients who aren’t wearing masks.

This thread is bonkers. But then Uk case numbers is bonkers. Did I hear right that one in five people who test pos are in the UK? Madness!!!!!

And I’m all about education. All about it! And I think it’s scandalous that education has been and continues to be disrupted. But safeguarding comes first. I don’t want to list all the things again.....

And yes - in this context I believe the school should be closed as safeguarding has been compromised (needlessly and avoidably).

[quote CherryBlossomWinter]@Hyly68 I completely agree with you. However schools are not doing everything they can do. In fact most schools are doing almost zero, because they’ve not been given clear public health guidance. Public health are doing almost zero in schools also. That is the problem. There shouldn’t be outbreaks in a classroom, because good ventilation + HEPA filters + quickly isolating a positive case (+ masks + antigen tests well used in the right place) would mean very, very few schools had transmission within classrooms.

It’s so frustrating as these actions aren’t that hard to do. And they aren’t being done, or only being done by a school going against advice and introducing measures once the horse has bolted.[/quote]
It’s nice to see a bit of reason here. Thanks for talking sense.

Ps, I believe so much in the power of proper (not OMG missing a kids football game, which in the context is more cop on than mitigation) that I bought a hepa filter for my kids class. It was expensive. I had to use a credit card. But I believe in education. I believe in my kids right to an education. I just wish others did too and did what was necessary to ensure he could access it safely.

Thank god, so far, I am confident enough that he can access education safely. But I would say, even here, it’s on a knife edge. I keep my eyes open (how many kids in icu, daily rates, parental groups that inform of cases in schools). I am ready to say, nope that’s not safe for us. In the case of the school under discussion? Not a hope in hell I would be sending my kid in!!!! I also wouldn’t send him to a measles room, a polio party etc. And I got him a chicken pox vacc as he suffers eczema and the outcome for him could have been painful.

I am brimming with anger that the actions of others (driving sky high community transmission) and political as l failure mean I have to think like this.

@MrsDeaconClaybourne

The problem for me is when we talk about closing classes/schools and going to remote learning sometimes it's done without considering the harms to children; as though it's a neutral, easy solution. The risk to many children's mental and physical health and education through repeated school closures and isolations is immeasurable. And I say that as someone who works in school and has just gone back after having CV. Although in all probability I caught it from my own DC not the ones I work with! I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it's making more children miss more school.

Totally agreed! Love education! Love schools. Which is why the current situation is so enraging. Let it rip is a policy. This situation could have been avoided.

Well how lovely for all of you who aren't CV or CEV, or without vulnerable children, out there "just getting on with it".

@NellePorter

Well how lovely for all of you who aren't CV or CEV, or without vulnerable children, out there "just getting on with it".

It's unfortunate, but if you're CV, CEV or vulnerable as a child, anything is more likely to kill you, not just COVID. We don't stop schools for vulnerable members of the school community with colds and other viruses and realistically we can't afford to do it for this one forever.

It’s a dog eat dog world out there. Only the strongest may survive. But that’s ok cos the majority are “done with COVID”.

It's not a case of wanting to be done with covid, it's a case of basic survival for many. I need to go to work to put food on the table and pay my mortgage. I cannot do this if my child is not in school. I have given up plenty for the vulnerable in the last 18 months. So yes it is now survival of the fittest.. I refuse to starve or be made homeless. Deal with it.

@ThirdElephant a thousand people a week aren't dying in the UK from colds and viruses

Some of these posts make me despair with humanity. When did everyone just become so angry all the time?