Raising kids, successful careers and pursuing hobbies, how?

[ponder1ng]

I have a 6 month old. With a commute I work 8-6. Husband works longer hours and earns more. Ideally I don't want my child to be in nursery/school breakfast and after school clubs. I want to be there to drop and collect them and take them to the park etc. If they stay after school, by the time I've collected them it will be time for dinner and bed. Is this the norm? And then when do you fit in time to pursue your hobbies and everything else that life demands? We can survive on just husbands salary but I don't want to give up my job if I don't have to. I don't have a thriving career but was planning to work my way up, although I imagine this is probably the worst timing having just had a child

Nobody can have everything - not women, not men. You have to make compromises and sacrifices and choose what’s important to you.

To me, it’s my family. No point wasting my time being a wage slave to someone else when I could be raising my own child.

Came on to echo what a number of PPs have said. You can't have it all at the same time. Fortunately though, raising kids and being grown up generally takes place over a long period of time and at different times, different parts of the equation will matter more and be more attainable

For what it's worth, I am 50 with three kids - youngest 8, oldest 18 and - over the last 18 years - we have had numerous different patterns of work and childcare. Now, I work (very) fulltime but take unpaid leave for summer. My DH works about 70%. I am very senior so I can chose my hours a bit more and usually manage school drop off. Kids are older, so need less childcare and more time with us - their parents. At the moment, we are prioritering being at home with kids (very little external childcare), sleep and making some time for ourselves. But in the past, we have had extensive childcare (nannies, nurseries etc) and zero time for hobbies/ourselves. DH and I do spend a weekend together without kids every three months - this was impossible until recently, but is important to us (and costs a huge amount in childcare which we couldn't have afforded 10 years ago).

In a nutshell, what worked for us when kids were small, wouldn't work now, and vice versa. If you only have one kid then even with lot of childcare that child still gets a lot of time and attention from you, for example. It's very different when there are more.

The two most important lessons I have learned are (I) outsource everything that you don't love that you can afford to - cleaning etc. and (II) don't feel guilt - make your decision for now, then review it in a year and see if it is (still) working. If not, change it.

We both work ft. I don't want to do pt because that would seriously affect my pension and that's just not affordable. In my opinion people don't think enough about what's going to happen when they retire. Our child goes to a couple of hours of childcare before and after school but we always collect her by half four when we finish work. For us what had to give was hobbies. I don't have any at all other than reading in the evening. He has a few small hobbies but they take up hardly any time. At weekends we do family stuff. There's just not time for stuff like going to the gym or yoga. So that's been our sacrifice. Occasionally I wistfully think that I'd like to work out or swim but I'd rather spend time on my child and work.

@ftw163532

Why doesn't your husband want to be there to drop and collect them or take them to the park?

Indeed. 2 parents who if adaptations are required can accommodate it

There is no magic bullet here OP. I’m afraid you need to make some tough choices. No one has it all.

In reality if you want to be there for school drop offs/ collections - you are looking for a career that gives you that flexibility. Which More companies are offering as a result of the pandemic. I see some companies offering permanent wfh contracts, or experimenting with core hours of 10-4 (with flexibility outside of that). Even those however won’t help you with school holidays/ inset days/ child being unwell etc. This is also largely dependent on the sector you work in - tech/ software related roles are desperate to retain/ promote female staff so if you looo at different sectors, you may find it easier.

In terms of career progression, I’m afraid to say that I know no people who have managed to work flexibly/ part time and simultaneously climb the career ladder. That may change culturally nowadays but to date has not happened in my experience.

I personally worked PT when my children were pre school (and I subsequently saw my career stall during those years). Once they were in school I went back full time and my career has progressed brilliantly. It has however come at a price: I didn’t do school runs, I have missed sports days/ assemblies/ prize giving and even a birthday.
I don’t have any regrets as it has afforded my children and I financial security. And now as my children are increasingly independent, I have something outside of them.

How Did I manage? With a team of help and with military precision organisation. My career and my kids come first and second. Hobbies and a social life have also taken a hit as a result of my choices.

My only strong piece of advice? Please, whatever you do, don’t give up work. It may be hard but try and make this work. Even if you just stay in part time work and did as I did (which was just stay at the level I was), it’s better than stepping out completely.

Your husband also needs to step up and divide and conquer the school runs etc.

I agree @sassbott. Don’t give up work don’t be financially reliant on your dp
Have it all is the biggest myth ever sold to women, no one has it all. It’s a social construct set up to make parents feel inadequate and imply that to be a good mother one must sacrifice career for the family
Also the baby is only 6mth old, it’s all relatively new

When DS was small we both worked FT in higher education but with some flexibility. I worked 8 till 4 and DH worked 10 till 6 give or take. There was also some working at home but this not on call as such. He did drop offs and I did pick ups. If for any reason we were away from home we worked round it or paid for breakfast club or after school club.

We had a cleaner and we ordered the bulk of our food shop online. We cooked a lot of one pot dinners in a slow cooker or we would stick the oven on and chuck meat and veg in to roast.

I took pottery for two years and did dancing lessons after that, I cycled to work often so that covered exercise, 10 miles round trip and DH bought a rowing machine and still ran.

We had no help as live hundreds of miles and overseas from family. We threw money at it and were extremely organised. We also said no to stuff we didn’t want to do. DH cousins wedding springs to mind, £500 plus an entire weekend, DS was a toddler then we just said no.

In my experience, successful women who seemingly have it all, single handedly, actually have a great deal of help in the background, either family or paid help.

This.

Perhaps due to our background it was more common for it to be a GM - though occasionally all DGP - but usually maternal grandmother who was holding everthing up and only knew a few who paid - and found it reliable enough to contiunue life as before.

We had no such help - and it used to drive me nuts as my career gave - when I'd get well other people manage - ignoring the huge supportive network these managing "others" had and often the juggling and compromises they still had to do behind the scenes.

@KeyboardWorriers

I have (largely) sacrificed hobbies in order to prioritise the other two .

I do a decent chunk of my work in the evenings so that I can be around for the kids before and after school. This is at the expense of having really any time to myself but feels worth it as my career has gone from strength to strength since I had my first child.

This is interesting. I want to do this and manage to do a bit in the evenings but most of the time I barely manage anything at all once bath, bed and basic tidying up are done. My career is hanging on by a thread and I feel I’m phoning it in most days, but I am just so tired. And that’s only with one child and a job I adore.

I have sacrificed hobbies. I have a very good career. I can’t do pick up and drop ups every day, but I am there for most assemblies/plays etc.

Friends in similar situations who do hobbies, put themselves first. I need to be better at this and carve out more time for myself. So they will go for a run as planned even if a child is sick/sad etc. They are very good at saying no to other things.

I think you just accept that we have to miss out on certain things and being permanently exhausted
This. DP is currently sulking because I took DD out all morning and brought her home in time for a roast dinner he made, then he played with her and I cleared up was there a broccoli GRENADE?. After which he had a storm cloud above his head because “the day’s half gone and you took her all morning yet I only got an hour doing [hobby], then you hid in the kitchen”. But he also wanted to cook a roast and spend time scrolling on his phone and to tidy the house. Can’t do it all!

I work 4 days a week, have 1 day with DD. My day job is very much the day job – for bills and pension. I also have a career as a novelist, which means slogging out every evening writing and editing and adminning and going to bed late. I don’t swim or gym or see friends much (in the evenings) or pursue a high-powered day job or have a tidy/clean house. Garden a lot less than I’d like. That’s the balance I’ve chosen but you have to really be disciplined to pursue what you want/care about.

Whereas DP talks the talk “I want more time to do hobby” but when it comes to it he likes to take leisurely poos while staring at his phone (yes yes I’m on MN right now), and also wants to make roast dinners. I’d love a lovely house but if it comes down to the paintbrush or the writing, I have to choose the writing.

I hate the phrase “you pays your money and you takes your choice” but it’s apt, I think. Perhaps also: you cut your cloth according to your means. The cloth and means in this case being time and what activities you want to fit into it while also seeing your kid.

I hear it gets better once they leave home

* My career and my kids come first and second*

@sassbott

In that order?

No @Reallyimeanreally2022 it flexes between the two. At times my career has had to come first and I’ve had to make those calls (like missing a birthday). Other times my children come first and there have been non negotiatbles around them.

I’m also ruthlessly apologetic about my family time being just that. So when I’m with my kids, I make the active point of being very present and not pre occupied with work.

@Reallyimeanreally2022 but if they did come in that order, would you have had a point of view on that?

[quote sassbott]@Reallyimeanreally2022 but if they did come in that order, would you have had a point of view on that?[/quote]
Tricky one.

I guess I would have been intrigued more than anything

You stagger days so DH deals with the kids in the morning, and you do bedtime. Or vice versa.

You rarely see each other, and you forget having hobbies until the kids are all at least in school.

You batch cook all food (or pay someone to batch cook for you).

You resign yourself to poor health as you don’t have any time for the gym or getting out and about.

And you get a cleaner.

Alternatively, you take your foot off the gas and let the career take the hit.

You simply can’t have it all.

I worked full time but didn't have any hobbies until DS was 6. I was a single parent for a large chunk of that though. It was very much get home, tea, bath, bed for DS. Then I could tidy, clean, do washing etc. You get through it and sacrifices have to be made if you have children.

You rarely see each other

You resign yourself to poor health as you don’t have any time for the gym or getting out and about.

I think this is bad advice, especially the second part. Yes life is hectic, but I think it's really important to make time for your relationship and for yourself. If you neglect your marriage and health to that degree you're going to end up a single parent and no one should be putting their health last. Children need to see parents that take care of themselves, that value their relationships and their health. Centring your children to that degree just creates entitled children with unrealistic expectations and miserable parents (IMO).

DH and I have always worked full time, he goes away for months at a time, I'm a senior manager. We have still managed to always ensure there is time for each other, and I have found ways to get exercise in (usually lunch times) it'll look different for different families, whilst "something" usually has to give, health and relationships are not the compromise (well not to the point they're neglected entirely), in my opinion.

I think it’s a bit like the “time, cost, quality” triangle. You can pick any 2, at the cost of the third.

Personally I went part time at work for a couple of years, so prioritised kids and hobbies, but then went back to full time and dropped the hobbies. Now the kids are teens I am finding I naturally have a little time to pick the hobbies up again (because the kids self-deprioritise).

No one had it all. It’s a myth used to berate women with. The career mum who bakes,runs,volunteers and has hobbies is a myth
I actually know one of these but she’s one of those mad “thrives on not sitting still” people who can live off about an hour’s sleep and positively VIBRATES with coffee/adrenaline/extreme “doing things” anxiety. Also her husband is very hands on and part time.

Are you about to go back after your first ? If so this is an ideal opportunity to establish that the drop off/ pick ups need to be shared as do the sick days and the precious weekend leisure time. When Ds was 6m I switched from Mother and baby yoga to going at 8:30 On a Saturday while DH had DS. If I did the am drop off DH did the evening pick up and his versa, so neither of us were running out the door every night. Putting in the hours now will reap rewards later when they really know if you haven't made it the nativity/assembly etc. These should also be shared. I am 45 years old, I have 2 DCs I was lucky enough to feel like a didn't miss out (usually managed a minimum of 1-2 pick ups a week in primary) I now have a senior position and have much more flexibility and earn than if I had taken the "mummy track".

Honestly, I think ‘mum guilt’ is just manufactured nonsense. I’ve rarely, if ever, experienced it. I adore every part of motherhood but also love my career. When my DC was born I went to four days which were full on and continue to be. There’s a lot of juggling but I’ve somehow managed to retain some semblance of a social life and a handful of hobbies. Do I ‘have it all’? No, but I’m more than content.

Everybody has the same amount of time in the day. They don't have some secret life hack. They either get more done than you do or outsource the shit out of everything - or, more probably, both.

Personally, I see as much value in racing through life trying to do absolutely everything and tick every box going as running through an art gallery to say you've seen everything, but to each her own.

Also agree mum guilt is another shitty stick to beat women with
I’ve never experienced mum guilt in my life,why would I?
No man is ever made to feel guilty for working,having a career,and being a parent
With a new baby Men aren’t routinely asked are you going part time?giving up work?

The other thing I really wanted to post in my earlier post was, do dads feel guilty/upset/worried about not being able to do school drop off/pick up, go to a sports day, assembly, play, take kids to the park during the week etc? Obviously a few will, but in a M/F marriage, no men I’ve ever met (including my husband) feel any such guilty/worry and it’s always the mum who does.

Same with leaving kids for work trips. It is a huge juggle and requires lots of openness with your partner, honesty about your feelings and a solid financial plan. We totally lost our way when ours were young because my husband had very specific ideas that really didn’t work out. Finally, we have a balance that works for us, but like I said before, I earn really not very much in order for us to have that balance.

Him WFH due to the pandemic has made him step up a bit and organise his work much better, which has helped too. Good luck.