Sexual contact when asleep - abusive?

[Level75]

Just listened to an interesting item on Woman's Hour about people initiating sexual contact with their partner when their partner is asleep. The interviewee said all contact in this manner is without consent and therefore technically sexual assault. AIBU in agreeing with her? Loads of people contacted the program to say it wasn't an issue and some even gave blanket consent for their partner to have sex with them whilst asleep. I just thought that was a bit grim.

Yes, in can definitely be.

I've been in a loving relationship where cuddles & touching while asleep in bed are great. People who have only experienced this can find it hard to view this as abusive, as they're looking at it in the context of their own mutually respectful relationships.

Have also been in an abusive relationship where I woke up with their fingers inside me more than once & this partner claimed he had "sexomnia".

Funnily after I once woke up & instinctively punching him repeatedly to get him off me, the sexomnia seemed to magically stop!

I honestly don't know how it's possible to have actual full penetrative sex with someone without waking them up.

Clearly it happens, but I can't get my head around how you would sleep through it, unless you were drugged.

@GitsandShigggles

My wife often wakes me up with a BJ or slides on for an early morning ride - no objections here at all!

🤢

Some women just seem to have no standards or self worth.
This has happened to me twice in my life by 2 different men and one was definitely what I consider as rape as I did not consent and I froze when I woke up and realised what was happening.
It’s so disturbing that some think this is ok.

@FatAnneTheDealer a woman I know holds that each partner must get verbal consent for everything sexual they do each and every time they have sex or it's assault. As I dont enjoy checklist sex I ignore her too. It's just a point of view and although is important to think about how you communicate consent within a relationship you dont have to run your sex life by some randoms opinion.

Actually it was 3 times, one has literally just slammed back into my memory 😞

Wow, GitsandShiggles's imaginary wife is far cooler than me.

@FluffyBooBoo, agreed, unless she were drugged or very, very determined not to wake up / be present for the act.

It’s so disturbing that some think this is ok.

What you're describing is not okay

What other people are describing is a different experience

@FluffyBooBoo

Tricky one. My ex would often initiate sex when I was asleep - sometimes I would be into it, sometimes not. But after a not insignificant number of years, it turned out he thought I was instigating it and waking him up.

I don't think I can call it abuse when he doesn't even know he's doing it!

I think it's mostly down to the couple. If they have an agreement to say it's fine, then it's fine. If one person doesn't want it, then it's not.

But cases like mine muddy the water somewhat.

"he thought I was instigating it and waking him up."

no he didn't.

DH tried it once. Let's just say he never repeated it.

I am not the sort of person you wake up unless the house is burning down.

Sex is enjoyed when consensual and both partners are awake in my book.

@CornishGem1975. Easy, you're sleeping on your side. They lick their hand, push your undies aside & are in there before you can realise what's happening.

In my experience it was mostly digital penetration, but it's very easy to start having sex with someone while asleep if they're positioned on their side.

I guess if you were a very light sleeper perhaps you'd find it hard to imagine how easy that is...

[quote WhiskyXray]@FluffyBooBoo I'm replying to this sentence in the OP:

"some even gave blanket consent for their partner to have sex with them whilst asleep."

That's tragic and utterly horrific.[/quote]
Using an old namechange for baring my soul on the internet, but not necessarily.

One of my kinks is to wake up while my partner is actively having PIV sex with me. He knows this, we have discussed it extensively, and while it doesn't happen often - logistically, it's quite hard to do especially because I sleep like someone dropped me from a great height, limbs all over the show, and obviously it's quite difficult to get to that point without already having woken someone up - very occasionally it does happen.

As with a huge range of sexual likes and dislikes, the key is communication. Would he do it when we'd gone to bed on an argument or I was ill etc, where I might be less pleased to be woken up that way? No, and we've discussed that in depth, but I trust him to make the call and have given him my ongoing consent to something that I really enjoy.

That's not tragic or horrific. It would be if I was saying "do what you want while I'm asleep because I'm too exhausted but feel obliged to let you get your kicks" or "do it when you want because I don't really enjoy sex". But that's not the case for me.

Depends on the couple of course, my ex loved the idea of me waking him up that way, others do not consent. As long as everyone is happy there is no issues

There’s a difference between waking your partner up to suggest sex and sexually abusing someone who is asleep

Women definitely do it to, it’s not only a man thing

[quote smoko]@CornishGem1975. Easy, you're sleeping on your side. They lick their hand, push your undies aside & are in there before you can realise what's happening.

In my experience it was mostly digital penetration, but it's very easy to start having sex with someone while asleep if they're positioned on their side.

I guess if you were a very light sleeper perhaps you'd find it hard to imagine how easy that is...[/quote]
Yes, I think that's why I struggle to comprehend it, I totally believe it happens but I can't imagine it - I am an incredibly light sleeper - someone could walk into the room, or if DP just rolls over in bed, I wake up.

I think it is on the whole unreasonable (and deeply patronising) for one person to insist to another person that they have been assaulted, when they don’t think they have! this. People have different boundaries and I think part of a good relationship is understanding and respecting these. So for some contact while sleeping would be fine and others need verbal consent before each contact- also fine if that's your wish.
My dh would know NEVER wake me up.

And also that ltd contact while I'm asleep is fine. As long as he refers to first rule.

[quote smoko]@CornishGem1975. Easy, you're sleeping on your side. They lick their hand, push your undies aside & are in there before you can realise what's happening.

In my experience it was mostly digital penetration, but it's very easy to start having sex with someone while asleep if they're positioned on their side.

I guess if you were a very light sleeper perhaps you'd find it hard to imagine how easy that is...[/quote]
Yes it is that easy, my ex use to do this to me when I was pregnant like I said never realised it was considered wrong until I came onto MN

If someone describes being assaulted or raped, I am not going to pretend it's a-ok and go along with their denial.

Have you not seen how many women in desperately abusive relationships will describe extreme abuse (so no possible scope for any of the minimising bullshit to be valid) but insist that it's normal and fine? Some women have never experienced a non-abusive relationship.

Engaging in a protective coping mechanism based on denial/normalisation or having been brainwashed into believing it is ok does not actually change the nature of what is occurring.

@FatAnneTheDealer

The woman on the radio specifically stated that it was not possible to give blanket, or prior, consent. I.e. even in a relationship where one partner has said specifically that it is okay to be woken up with sexual touching, that consent was not valid and it was still an assault.

Since you can’t give anything but prior consent if you are asleep, that means she was saying in every case without exception this is assault.

I think it is on the whole unreasonable (and deeply patronising) for one person to insist to another person that they have been assaulted, when they don’t think they have!

I’d agree with your last sentence definitely. If DH wakes me up by kissing/stroking which I am totally fine with, I object to someone saying “no actually, he sexually assaulted you”

@nadiamumoftwo

There’s a difference between waking your partner up to suggest sex and sexually abusing someone who is asleep

Exactly.

@ftw163532

If someone describes being assaulted or raped, I am not going to pretend it's a-ok and go along with their denial.

Have you not seen how many women in desperately abusive relationships will describe extreme abuse (so no possible scope for any of the minimising bullshit to be valid) but insist that it's normal and fine? Some women have never experienced a non-abusive relationship.

Engaging in a protective coping mechanism based on denial/normalisation or having been brainwashed into believing it is ok does not actually change the nature of what is occurring.

I agree with you. I used to be wholly on the "every relationship is different" train, but years and years of hearing women explain away abuse have brought me round to the view you express here.

Surely if you have a discussion between you as a couple with no blurred lines and reach a unanimous decision that is stuck to then it's not abusive.

If you’ve said, please do wake me up by starting to have sex with me, and by all means continue if I’m asleep, whenever you want. I guess that is consent. All be it I find it hard to imagine someone giving something so blanket.

I’ve always made it clear to partners myself that I’m not to be woken unless the house is on fire.