What does "I don't want to have sex mean"?

[PilatesPeach]

This is about me. I said to chap on 1st date right at the outset that I did not want to have sex - those were my words - he takes that to mean I do not want PIV intercourse but otherwise all else ok eg bjs and him making me come. I feel that is splitting hairs and felt quite uncomfortable and pissed off, especially when accompanied with "aw, common on baby...."
I am not a prude but wanted to have a date to get to know each other properly with no expectations on sex on first date - yes I have done this before but things happen in life and now would prefer to wait till a few dates in.

It wasn't a first date it was a booty call and I'm surprised you didn't see through it, but lesson learnt and at least you don't have to waste any time getting to know he is scummy - he's revealed that so quickly! Bonus!

Obviously you're not being unreasonable. What a lazy (and cheeky) git

No second date then, he sounds a real charmer & don’t go to their house on a first date!!

"He said would would go to the cinema or out for a meal or a drink - fine I said,

When it came to it, he was tired and asked me to his to "chill out"

If he's too tired to even sit upright in a restaurant or pub then he's too tired to be in "date" mode -- charming, witty, interesting and trying to impress.

I agree with others that you should have told him you would have the date another time when he wasn't tired.

IMHO a woman should never accept a first date (I'd say three or four dates) that consists of the woman going to the man's place.

Don't let them be so lazy. The more effort they have to make for you, the more value you have in their eyes.

He just wanted some kind of sex, and without having to make even the slight effort of going to the pub and buying you a drink.

Tbh I think you need to re-evaluate how you date

Going to his for a first date?

For one thing doesn't require much if any effort on his part

For another - it leaves you extremely vulnerable - not just to selfish entitled behaviour as here but downright dangerous!

I wouldn't have gone to his and frankly the lack of effort on his part - changing it to his cos he was tired?! Hardly inspiring! - would have stopped me having any interest in him whatsoever

And I say all the above REGARDLESS of you knowing him prior to dating.

A person who is genuinely interested in DATING you and not just sex, arranges or agrees to a proper date (cinema, meal etc) and follows through!

This is sadly not just an issue with men, I'm bi and I've come across lazy/sex only focused women too - less often with women but it does happen

In my experience a good way to weed out those who won't make an effort in a relationship is to only date those who'll make an effort with the initial dating!

I expect someone who wants to date me to:

Ask ME out not wait and see if I'll ask them

Depending who's asked who either plan a nice date with thought and consideration or be at least willing to go on what I would class as a proper date - bare minimum a trip to the cinema, ideally a nice meal out, trip to the theatre or an exhibition or similar, something that requires being a little more nicely dressed than usual and to make an effort socialising and using good manners

Present themselves well - I once walked away from a date when the chap had shown up in muddy jeans and a footy top! While I was there in an lbd and heels ready to go as we had planned to a VERY nice restaurant which they wouldn't have let him into dressed like that! I include personal hygiene in this too, one lady showed up with scruffy hair and a distinct whiff of BO! No! The very least a date can do is show up clean and tidy and appropriately dressed

Be well mannered and courteous on the date. I've witnessed awful table manners, finger clicking at wait staff, "oy" at wait staff, I've been subjected to lewd comments, inappropriate questions about my personal info... honestly beggars belief

And yes, of course i endeavour to be a good date myself

These days it seems the whole thing has gone out the window for too many people and nobody makes an effort any more.

I'm happily and by choice single now for a number of reasons, this type of slim pickings aspect is part of it, but there are other personal reasons why I've chosen to be.

Quite honestly when I see/hear/read what it's like on the dating scene now I think I've dodged bullets most of the time!

Men want all the return for no fucking investment.

Yep!!

i couldnt be arsed going on a FIRST DATE with someone who couldnt be arsed to get out of the front door and make any effort.

Exactly my sentiment!

The more effort they have to make for you, the more value you have in their eyes.

Sadly so true

Who the hell asks for a blowjob on the first date? So grim. Bin him off immediately. I was expecting him to be in his 20s not 50s..

Plus it's setting the bar very low in terms of effort and imagination at the very start of dating

This, it doesn't need to be expensive, most romantic date I've ever had was a picnic cream tea in Soho Square. Also day time before night time, coffee before drinks, before dinner. I have had plenty of ONS and FWBs type arrangements dating is different and requires a bit more effort.

I think you were pretty clear... however it is possible to have misunderstandings about such topics, what is more important is how he responded. When he realised there was a misunderstanding (I'm being charitable here!) he should have apologised and backed off, not tried to coerce you into continuing. At least you know now, OP. I'm sorry he made you doubt yourself - it's good to state your boundaries and expect to have them respected. You're never obliged to do anything sexually you don't want to do even if you change your mind at the very last moment or during the act itself.

I get that some people might not have gone and I get that some people might regard me as unwise but my post did not ask WIBU to go to his house

But it’s certainly worth taking into account for future dating. Safety aside, why would you set the bar so low that you’ll deliver yourself to his house for a dating audition when the man can’t even be arsed to leave his front room?! Where’s the value that you put on yourself?

When it came to it, he was tired and asked me to his to "chill out"

This is code for ‘I can’t be bothered to take you out, but I’ll willingly have sex with you if it doesn’t require any effort on my part. Don’t expect any improvement, this is as good as it’s going to get.’

People who think that PIV/PIA is real sex and everything else is merely foreplay (despite oral sex being called oral SEX) are using a heteronormative concept of sex. Sex is penetrative with a penis into a vagina or an anus, nothing else counts as sex. By this definition, lesbian couples who don't use strap-ons have never had sex, they have only ever had foreplay...

Despite knowing the issues with that definition though, I struggle to view myself as having had sex with a man I've only given a blowjob to. Similarly, if a man pleasured me orally, and then claimed to have had sex with me, I would deny that. I know it's heteronormative, but can't seem to shake it.

I don't think I would call a blowjob 'sex', and I definitely wouldn't consider 'heavy petting'/hand stuff 'sex' either. That said, I think pushing right up to the limits of an expressed boundary is disrespectful anyway.

Yuk he was a sleazy creep who basically tricked you into coming to his place and then tried tobully you into sexuak activity yoh’d made very clear you didn’t want to do.

He didn’t want a date he wanted an unpaid hookup. He has no respect for you.

Sounds like he’s also trying to gaslight you.

I hope you’re ok it sounds like a horrible experience.

Nice guys don’t ask for blow jobs they get spontaneously given them. Asking for a blow job is very unsexy.

Yuk yuk yuk.

Ugh. "No sex" means just that - no sex, be it penetrative, oral or masturbatory. As others have said, he was trying his luck and was a disrespectful creep.

Personally I wouldn't go to anyone's house for a date (or invite them in to mine) unless sex actually WAS on the cards from my side, whether it was the first date or the fiftieth, purely because of the high chances of them trying it on regardless of what I'd want or say.

Take this as a lesson and as a bullet well and truly dodged - no man who actually wants to build a serious relationship with you would ignore what you'd said and try to pressurise you into it, especially on the first date.

@thisplaceisweird

Please don't go to random men's houses alone on a first date. Alarm bells ringing.

Provided he wasn't pushy (just a bit gross) then nobody's wrong, you just have different expectations.

So it's absolutely fine for a man to expect to have sex with a woman he's never met, let alone discussed sexual preferences with ? I think you belong back in the 1950's... your husband wants a sandwich making😂

@CBroads what an over the top and rude comment! Not to mention there is no logic to it.

So it's absolutely fine for a man to expect to have sex with a woman he's never met, let alone discussed sexual preferences with ?

they had met previously. He is an acquaintance of the OP's.

To answer the question of the thread title - I would consider that statement meant that any activity that was aimed at producing an orgasm for any participant would be explicitly excluded.

Yanbu to expect your boundaries to be respected. I hope you don't see this bloke in any kind of dating context again, he needs to know that his behaviour is utterly repugnant and if you give him any kind of further chance he will think his behaviour was acceptable.

@PilatesPeach

He asked in the middle of last week to have a first day yesterday.

He said would would go to the cinema or out for a meal or a drink - fine I said,

When it came to it, he was tired and asked me to his to "chill out"

I said fine but I wanted to clarify upfront that I did not want to have sex on the first day.

I went round, we had a drink and we kissed on the sofa.
He then tries to move things along further. I reiterated my earlier point and I felt he was trying to cajole or wheedle me into more but saying he was fine no having sex but could I give him a bj and he bring me off and to me, I would include that in the no sex category. He thought that there was a distinction. I thought FFS.

Hope that clarifies anything that people thought was unclear.

Not a great idea who meet a man you don't know in his home on the first date.

He invited you to his home cs he wanted sex and couldn't even be bothered to buy you dinner

@CBroads yes. It's completely fine for anyone to have a desire or an expectation or want anything really, and it's fine to express that in a neutral and calm way. Basically, it's ok to want something and to be honest about it. There's a line that is crossed when expressing that becomes creepy or sleazy, of course. When you make someone else uncomfortable you back off and leave it. It sounds like that's what happened which is why I didn't see there was much harm done. He's obviously not a nice man but asking for sex is hardly a crime, or a surprise when you go to their house on a first date !

Also don't be a twat, read the horrible tone of your post and get a hold of yourself you silly woman.

It's not ok to have any expectations about sex. Desires or hopes, yes, expectations, no.

@FlamesEmbersAshes

The red flag was him changing the venue of the date from a public place to his home. If he was that tired he should have rescheduled. I would never go to a man’s house for a first date - ever. It puts you at needless risk.

What a revolting man.

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