To think we should be protesting

[Jessieabs]

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

I'd leave childcare as it is.

There's something a bit 'utopian' about having subsidised or 'affordable ' childcare in this country.

People have proved time and again how selfish and entitled they are in our green and pleasant land, so it wouldn't suprise me to see they system being milked, causing a population rise and a gap in the employment market , with all the problems that would bring.

[quote EasterIssland]@Dreamstate you’re the one making the stupid comparison. In your comparison the kids don’t have any effect in the tax discount. It’s the adults living within the same household[/quote]
And its in response to another poster so butt out okay.

Clearly your in the camp of subsidise it more aka pay more taxes , well your welcome to go hand over more money to help then..why don't you go do that instead of picking on my responses

At least I know you don't give a damn about single childfree people and how much they end up paying. You'd be happy if we had no money to spend on ourselves

the thing is many of you blame the parents lifestyle and stay if you want kids pay for it.
Well if you want to be single (which is completely acceptable) its a lifestyle so you'll have to pay for it as well.

But your comparison that because you as a single person pay for more taxes than a couple is stupid .. what happens when a family there is a only income in the house.. does it count as they pay taxes like a childfree person? and where a couple decide not to have children? do they pay like someone that has kids ?

@Jessieabs

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

This is why many women don't ho back to work.

@Kpo58

I think that the government should properly subsidise childcare. Think how much better the economy would be and amount of tax the government would get if most people could be in employment rather than a large amount being priced out of it due to childcare costs.

Yep

@EasterIssland

the thing is many of you blame the parents lifestyle and stay if you want kids pay for it. Well if you want to be single (which is completely acceptable) its a lifestyle so you'll have to pay for it as well.

But your comparison that because you as a single person pay for more taxes than a couple is stupid .. what happens when a family there is a only income in the house.. does it count as they pay taxes like a childfree person? and where a couple decide not to have children? do they pay like someone that has kids ?

Ok lets do this then

House A single working adult no children
House B two working adults two children
House C two adults one working and 2 children

All pay the same taxes for arguments sake of £800 a month income and NI together.

For sake of this example childcare benefit is £100 per child per month.

House A pays £800 in tax, receives zero back

House B pays £800 in tax, receives £200 back for childcare for 2 children

House C pays £800 in tax receives £200 back for childcare for 2 children.

Only House A gets zero back. So yes House A is paying more in tax. Even if you then add council tax into it House A still pays more.

Why don't you give me an example wher they don't...love to see it

Ok whatever. Being single and childfree is the worse as you don’t get anything back. Because when you pay for childcare you also pay taxes… and many of the things you buy for them kids.

When you start mixing stories so it suits you it’s when I give up.

Have a lovely day

@ohfook EXACTLY!! 👏

"Other countries look at the U.K. and their crippilingly high childcare costs the way we look to America and their flawed healthcare system.

And the don't have kids if you can't afford them is a disgusting thing to say. If society is so flawed that only families with a high earner can afford to have both parents in work then that's clearly a problem that won't be fixed by people having less children."

This. People who dismiss that in Europe people pay 250 euros per month as hearsay are ridiculous. They do! And we pay 1500 pounds, a mortgage! Think how many mums would go back to work to pay more taxes? Plus when you have kids you do end up paying more into the system (literally everytime you buy smt for your child) you're raising a member of society who will hopefully, contribute to it for God's sake. Really mypoic stupid comments from single people who have absolutely no clue here...

You chose to have kids. Suck it up

@Chloemol

You chose to have kids. Suck it up

You chose to live in a society. Suck it up

"Dreamstate
Ok lets do this then

House A single working adult no children
House B two working adults two children
House C two adults one working and 2 children

All pay the same taxes for arguments sake of £800 a month income and NI together.

For sake of this example childcare benefit is £100 per child per month.

House A pays £800 in tax, receives zero back

House B pays £800 in tax, receives £200 back for childcare for 2 children

House C pays £800 in tax receives £200 back for childcare for 2 children.

Only House A gets zero back. So yes House A is paying more in tax. Even if you then add council tax into it House A still pays more.

Why don't you give me an example wher they don't...love to see it"

Your calcs are off, House b has 2 people working pays twice tax, House c does not require childcare.

House A pays £800 in tax, receives £100 Council tax benefit

House B pays £1600 in tax, receives £200 back for childcare for 2 children

House C pays £800 in tax does not need childcare

Then in 50 years time House b and House Cs dc work to pay taxea which fund House As pension and elderly care (especially as they haven't got their own dc to help them in their old age,) plus they may have jobs that provide services that A enjoys during their retirement.

Sorry that was @Dreamstate

This. People who dismiss that in Europe people pay 250 euros per month as hearsay are ridiculous. They do!

But they don't. Governments generate money by taking it from everyone. You are effectively advocating for having the cost spread out over your entire working life, alongside people who have zero or a below average amount of children paying extra to support those who have more than average.
I'm skeptical about the net benefit.

Thanks @maddening for explaining it so well! And don’t forget that the toys we buy for the kids will have tax as well … but ey ho those that choose to be single as a lifestyle … are the ones that have it the hardest in life

@maddening

"Dreamstate Ok lets do this then

House A single working adult no children
House B two working adults two children
House C two adults one working and 2 children

All pay the same taxes for arguments sake of £800 a month income and NI together.

For sake of this example childcare benefit is £100 per child per month.

House A pays £800 in tax, receives zero back

House B pays £800 in tax, receives £200 back for childcare for 2 children

House C pays £800 in tax receives £200 back for childcare for 2 children.

Only House A gets zero back. So yes House A is paying more in tax. Even if you then add council tax into it House A still pays more.

Why don't you give me an example wher they don't...love to see it"

Your calcs are off, House b has 2 people working pays twice tax, House c does not require childcare.

House A pays £800 in tax, receives £100 Council tax benefit

House B pays £1600 in tax, receives £200 back for childcare for 2 children

House C pays £800 in tax does not need childcare

Then in 50 years time House b and House Cs dc work to pay taxea which fund House As pension and elderly care (especially as they haven't got their own dc to help them in their old age,) plus they may have jobs that provide services that A enjoys during their retirement.

Actually you should know childcare benefit is given regardless its not means tested. So house c will claim for it even if they actually don't need it, cos lets face who is going to say morally its wrong not to claim it. Yeah right!

As for social care thats means tested most soon qualify for it and if house a is paying £800 in tax a month you know they are earning more than average so no way in the future would they qualify.

As for state pension that from NI tax had the government actually set that money aside for you thats what you get back. Its not our fault they decided to spend it so now we have a system where your paying for elderly now and generation behind pay for you. It doesn't matter its all relative.

And most sensible people should be concerned about those government reports about future of state pension and be making sure they are putting enough aside because I know I am.

@Dreamstate, you had put childcare, that is not child benefit, right. And at 800.per month income tax you are earning too much to claim child benefit.

And council tax benefit as in single person reduction. Otherwise I would have stated universal credit.

And if you think any current NI is being set aside I think you are mistaken, it pays for the current pension.

Additionally, the childcare is only really for the first 4 years.

[quote maddening]@Dreamstate, you had put childcare, that is not child benefit, right. And at 800.per month income tax you are earning too much to claim child benefit.

And council tax benefit as in single person reduction. Otherwise I would have stated universal credit.

And if you think any current NI is being set aside I think you are mistaken, it pays for the current pension.

Additionally, the childcare is only really for the first 4 years.[/quote]
Oh fgs that's because op post is about childcare not child benefit thats why I'm talking about childcare. Her post is about wanting more subsidy for childcare!

Which most people get the 30hrs for unless you net income is over £100k and then its something else like only 15hrs.

The council tax is in response to another poster complaining about who will pay for the single person social care which at the moment is funded through council tax (until next yr April when an additional new tax comes in) ao ots only relevant to the response to that poster

As for pension I know NI pays for current prion, my whole point being if they set it up right so it didn't we wouldn't have this argument that my children will be paying for your pensions bs. But in reality NI is an insurance that you claim later on, like any other insurance you have paid for it so its a moot point.

[quote maddening]@Dreamstate, you had put childcare, that is not child benefit, right. And at 800.per month income tax you are earning too much to claim child benefit.

And council tax benefit as in single person reduction. Otherwise I would have stated universal credit.

And if you think any current NI is being set aside I think you are mistaken, it pays for the current pension.

Additionally, the childcare is only really for the first 4 years.[/quote]
Infact here multiple articles back in 2018 by various sources talking about the governments actuary department forecasting state pension running out in 2032. Its unsustainable.
www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2018/05/16/bid-farewell-to-the-state-pension/

2032 is only 11yrs away! So what will they do? Get rid of it? Reduce the amount? Means test it? Increase retirement age or a combination of some of that.

But fact is you won't be relying too much on it. So honestly the whole spell about kids paying my pension really isn't going to be holding too much weight. Which is why people should be pretty fecking worried about that and make sure they are building up enough themselves so yes if that means I dont want to support paying MORE tax to subside someone else's lifestyle choice so I can keep the money to find my retirement so be it. I dont think that makes me selfish one bit.

I like to think everyone is aware that current state pension triple lock is unaffordable and not going to persist. But that doesn’t stop us paying more taxes to ensure it does, or paying more taxes to ensure childcare is affordable. Scandinavia, child benefit = £100 a month, nursery fees £100 a month. Result being a happy nation with a highly productive, highly trained workforce. Taxes were high but classism and bitterness low. Read a bit beyond your own P60 Dreamstare and see how you can be part of a happy, positive society.

You chose to live in a society. Suck it up

You can't exactly compare the two. No one chooses to be born.

Nope....2k per month means they must be in ft, cant you find another option