To think we should be protesting

[Jessieabs]

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

@dongke so you think we shouldn't fund pensioners and care for them but we should fund childcare for those high earners on 100 k in a nutshell

And while I'm here, surely shitloads of the useless leeches pegged it during the pandemic, lightening the load and all. And passing on their money/houses to their their DCs?

I have no idea how many passed on their money & houses. Since deprivation meant a higher risk of death of covid I'm not sure how many had assets to pass down.

Stop being so patronising you think your better than me , your not your just some random on the internet

As are you
We are allowed different opinions you know

I don't have a problem with different opinions just stupid ones.

so you think we shouldn't fund pensioners and care for them but we should fund childcare for those high earners on 100 k in a nutshell

How on earth are you getting this from reading my posts 🤔

State run nurseries with capped fees would mean that higher earners would pay less than they currently do for private childcare - as the fees would be set to cover costs not to make the most profit. It would also mean that the existing subsidies for lower earners would go further, providing more free hours, as the cost of childcare would decrease.

@dongke

I don't have a problem with different opinions just stupid one

Get over yourself
Your opinion doesn't trump everyone elses just because you pay a lot of taxes
Your just rude

@dongke

How on earth are you getting this from reading my posts 🤔

Maybe read your posts ,

@worriedatthemoment

I don't think I'm better than you. I actually feel sorry for you as you must have such a hard time communicating in real life judging by your interpretations of posts on here & you seem a little lacking.

I need sleep now, way too late.

@dongke make you feel better did it ? All I am lacking is time for judgemental twats

@CasparBloomberg yes thats the thing for really high earners its not needed to help them just get by like it is for lower / middle earners

donke@ i agree with you but do you really think that any of the new NI is going to go towards social care let alone fix it. The government has already said that for the first 3 years it’s for the nhs and the post I referred to mentioned baby boomers specifically many of whom have for nearly 50 years paid NI.

Stunned by this thread. I've had a suspicion for a while that the demographic on this site had changed to something very different to what it was a few years ago, where I thought I'd found a community of progressive women fighting for equality in the home and workplace. I think my tribe left a year or two ago. Affordable at point of access childcare is such a no brainer, subsidising it and supporting women's careers pays for itself in the long run in more ways than one, any reading on the topic shows that pretty empirically. Maybe it's time I went too.

Please name these ‘other’ countries that do so much better for not much more tax?

@Delatron

I’m shocked too *@forinborin* Mumsnet is so strange at the moment.

I can understand childless people not wanting to subside other people’s children. But other mothers (?) saying it’s completely fine that this countries childcare costs are so much more than other countries, to the tune of about £1k a month. So that women (unfortunately it is the women) are priced out of the workplace. How is that ok?

Wish I lived in Scandinavia!

Scandinavian taxes are 57% (Sweden).

Pay for it in taxes or pay for in income. All the same thing. Paying the same amount.

In the UK it's pay as you go for childcare. Sounds eminently fair and reasonable. No one is forced to have children and over population is going to be the biggest issue your children will have to deal with in their lives so certainly no one should be encouraged to churn them out.

I'm surprised the cost didn't feature on anyone's planning before they had a kid.

@dongke

And while I'm here, surely shitloads of the useless leeches pegged it during the pandemic, lightening the load and all. And passing on their money/houses to their their DCs?

I have no idea how many passed on their money & houses. Since deprivation meant a higher risk of death of covid I'm not sure how many had assets to pass down.

Why do you assume deprivation of assets?

No the government has more urgent things to spend the money on such as the NHS not people's childcare

@AgentJohnson

Please name these ‘other’ countries that do so much better for not much more tax?

Many countries in Eastern Europe? Of those that I can definitely talk about in an informed way. Also noticed that high earning expats from there seem to have started returning home in droves now that their work can be done remotely. Childcare is either number one or number two quoted reason when we talk about it. To be fair, it is not even the cost as such, but rather what it buys you for the money. In a £90 / day nursery here children are still fed microwaved ready meals and sleep on the floor like dogs during their nap time, which is a bit mind boggling to many people.

A family member in Spain pays EUR 800/month for a full time pre-school, but they went for a fully private option with things like swimming and French included. I think a more standard option is cheaper, but don't know by how much.

echt I think that poster was saying that people who are more deprived were/are at higher risk of dying from covid. Those people would have very little to pass on. Nothing to do with deprivation of assets.

Better childcare provision would help with safeguarding and bridging the gap in educational attainment for those from impoverished backgrounds.

at least someone who doesn't yet have children is making a good point here.

Again: if you have children - were you campaigning on this pre-kids? or is it only now when it hits you that you want more help?

What about when you hit menopause? are you suddenly going to discover that?

PP have made the point: what will help is strongly pushing for men to take the hit to their career for family purposes. For women not to be the default parent. etc etc. I have been banging this drum for a long long time (I could stop now I've discovered menopause but there you go).

And the paramedic post - yes yes yes. It is high time that jobs that require shiftwork start attracting people by offering childcare solutions as part of the package of employment.

The problem that many people have is that they don't care about anything that benefits wider society, or even minorities, unless it directly affects them. And then BANG! they're aware.

What will help is getting sensible politicians onside. And sensible employers.

The people saying 'who does better for not much more tax?'

I'm happy to pay tax FFS.

@Sciurus83

Stunned by this thread. I've had a suspicion for a while that the demographic on this site had changed to something very different to what it was a few years ago, where I thought I'd found a community of progressive women fighting for equality in the home and workplace. I think my tribe left a year or two ago. Affordable at point of access childcare is such a no brainer, subsidising it and supporting women's careers pays for itself in the long run in more ways than one, any reading on the topic shows that pretty empirically. Maybe it's time I went too.

Seems like in this thread we only fight for those rights of the nurse that is earning 25k… but her peer the woman doctor as she’s taking home 51k then she can fuck off she shouldn’t have had the child if she can’t afford it.

Countries that subsidise childcare often have higher taxes and the need for people to pay for some healthcare services. If there was a choice between subsidising nursery fees or say gp visits then I think most people would opt for the latter. I'm not so sure that subsidised nurseries would be better than paying for a longer fully paid paternity leave.

I live in Germany where in most states, childcare is free between the age of 12 months and 6 years old, when they start school. That’s 5 years of nursery or pre-school that the state subsidises. You only pay for food and special activities, something like 100-150€ a month max (more if choosing a private fancy nursery with ballet and French and Japanese immersion).

Tax is similar to the UK. €10k tax-free allowance. Sliding scale between 14 and 42% until you reach €60k. Between €60k and €275k it’s 42%.

I can visit my GP for free and the healthcare system didn’t collapse or stop seeing non-urgent patients during the pandemic.

You can have both but it needs a competent government.

@EileenGC I think higher education is also free, or almost-free?

Better childcare provision would help with safeguarding and bridging the gap in educational attainment for those from impoverished backgrounds.

has that changed? I paid (20 years ago) more than EUR 200 per child for Kindergarten (07:30 - 14:00) and then EUR 600 to the childminder per month to collect them at 2, and keep them until i collected them around 18:30 (and all day in the holidays, didn't pay extra for that). The childminder carried on all through primary school and only stopped at secondary. I'm in NRW. (and not rich)

Uni: i pay about EUR 300 per semester (so twice a year) for my DC - this includes their travel card which is for all public transport within our state (not including high-speed trains)