To think we should be protesting

[Jessieabs]

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

Women never protest, if they do it’s the few, and the majority tear them down.

It's depressing.

@MakingM2 yes I see housing and rent as the biggest issue for so many this is such a large expense
All my family have been priced out of london and similar with my family in cornwall
Htb just raised prices around by us and people in 20 years will live in the same house and suddenly have to find x amount to pay of the equity loan
How many mums go back to work because they have to just to cover the mortgage , I know of many who would like a couple years at home but simply can't

most of us agree with help for lower incomes , we have an issue with it being covered for 2 high income households as the low earners taxes would have to fund this

Do you have an issue with other things lower earners have to fund eg the disproportionate burden with the rise in NI next year?

@forinborin but a 1 hr commute is not standard either for many and such things as nanny shares etc also exist
Parents could also do slightly different hrs so needed less , people do this all the time and people on a lot less money

@MakingM2 I have huge issues with the housing market it's a fucking shambles.

I don't begrudge those who qualified for h2b though. I know someone who bought one despite earning a good salary. They would have much rather not buy a new build which would have been cheaper but they couldn't save the deposit & despite having to repay a loan & a mortgage that was still cheaper then their rent.

Also I don’t understand your point of
“I’m happy to subsidise the childcare for low income families but not high earners one”

So a high earner might only be able to afford a child but you don’t want to subsidise it.
However , a low income one can have as many as they want and you’d be happy to subsidise it ?

I’m getting mixed messages … between the “have only children if you can afford them” and “we should only subsidise those that are low income, the rich (as if a 50k person was rich) can pay for themselves.

@dongke its not ideal no but the nhs is there for all of us and at last money is ring fenced as such, we all use the nhs at sometime in our lifes
But yes i do have an issue with lower incomes paying more taxes to fund those that earn over £100 k childcare bills

Unfortunately there isn't the political will in the country to do anything about housing. Many still don't understand why ever increasing prices is actually a bad thing for most.

@EasterIssland i haven't said only have kids if you can afford them ?
I also have always used 2 income family on £50 k each so over £100 k , yes that is rich

@EasterIssland its about disposable income at the end of the day a couple bringing home £6000 even with a £3000 childcare bill still have a fair amount to live on
A couple bringing home £2000 with a £200 childcare bill ( after subsidising) will have a lot more sacrifices to make still

[quote worriedatthemoment]@EasterIssland i haven't said only have kids if you can afford them ?
I also have always used 2 income family on £50 k each so over £100 k , yes that is rich[/quote]
I didn’t say you did. But some have said it in this thread.

Many are saying that the op is taking the piss because they are high earner hence they should pay for childcare. I don’t know whether the op has got a partner , or whether they are high earner as well. But yet many have said they’re taking the piss for wanting subsided childcare.

I only have 1 child. Despite having a good salary if I had 2 it would mean one of our salaries would be completely wiped out by childcare and would mean not being able to afford the holidays many of you point out. The ones that allow me to go and see my family I .e.

But the health & social care NI hike disproportionately impacts lower earners who may never get to retire or live as long despite the fact some pensioners are very wealthy & retired much earlier. I just don't understand why this is different.

@dongke Htb just pushed up the market though
We looked at one and it was about £280000
The same house , 1 year old was £20000 less, a 10 year old house , that was bigger was £40000 less

Where did I say it was a good thing?

@dongke where did i say you did

@dongke but its not going to pensions its going to healthcare

Why are you telling me it just pushed up the market though, did you think I was unaware of this?

[quote worriedatthemoment]@forinborin but a 1 hr commute is not standard either for many and such things as nanny shares etc also exist
Parents could also do slightly different hrs so needed less , people do this all the time and people on a lot less money
[/quote]
I have a feeling that you are speaking here from a hypothetical point of view so I don't really see any added value in continuing this discussion. Yes, I could theoretically choose to live in Central London not to have a hours commute from my zone 666, but that would rule out eating completely and I dread to think how much childcare would cost then. I think the majority of families are more or less in the same circumstances.

Many jobs that fall in the high tax bracket category do not even have an "hours" dimension to it. I am on mumsnet now, for example, because I have a 2.30 am work call with someone on the opposite side of the globe, and trying not to fall asleep.

@BergamotMouse

Or plan it so you're not paying fully for 2 in childcare? 2 year age gap, no nursery whilst on maternity then not long until child 1 gets 30 free hours.

I don't love it and have paid £1k + a month for a short time but if we couldn't have afforded it we wouldn't have had two so close together.

Ever heard of twins?

@dongke why do people have to always blame pensioners , they worked and paid taxes , many also had mortgages when the interests rates were 15% or whatever
Many many pensioners are not rich at all
My dad is 66 he still works part time , my mum had pension age pushed from 60 -66 without much warning
The state element pension those pensioners contributed to already and if they have private pensions it because they also paid , if they had kids they also paid childcare or sacrificed a wage

but its not going to pensions its going to healthcare

but older people use the NHS the most & pensioners are not paying the NI increase even those who work as they don't pay NI so it disproportionately affects the working lower earners.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@EasterIssland its about disposable income at the end of the day a couple bringing home £6000 even with a £3000 childcare bill still have a fair amount to live on
A couple bringing home £2000 with a £200 childcare bill ( after subsidising) will have a lot more sacrifices to make still [/quote]
Not sure how much is a mortgage in your area or a rent but in my area (not London) the rent I keep seeing lately it’s over 1.2-1.5k so that means a family that takes 6k home after childcare and rent have got 1.5k disposal and still need to pay for bills / petrol and food … tbh which is the point of working for this family

@worriedatthemoment

It's got nothing to do with blaming pensioners. It's just factual that the NI hike disproportionately hits lower earners, I'm not sure why stating that = blaming pensioners or that all pensioners are rich.

@dongke but they have already paid in for 40 plus years , we are likely to live even longer with better medical advancements etc so we will use it then too
Many ages use the nhs and those of us with children will use way more than we pay in , in general

Saying we have an ageing population & we need to plan for the difficulties associated with that also doesn't equal blaming pensioners.