To think we should be protesting

[Jessieabs]

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

@Dreamstate why do you think only single people should pay more?

@dongke many do but not those on 100 k earnings who then want their childcare subsidised too

[quote worriedatthemoment]@forinborin no but you don't have to own expensive cars and have foreign holidays , lunches out etc
We are not talking people on £10000 having to skip a meal because of childcare are we , maybe not having luxuries for a couple of years if they have 2 close together [/quote]
Well, you see, I am speaking from experience here. Thankfully, I did not have to skip meals when my two were that age, but I had to live once through most of the winter with no central heating as simply could not afford to replace the broken boiler, and - in turn - that happened because my children caught chickenpox one after another, could not go to the nursery, and I had to take two weeks unpaid. Happy days! Yes, a high rate taxpayer at the time and no, not because I otherwise spent all of it on luxuries. I paid off childcare debts from that time only a couple of months ago, and it is already five years later.

@ironorchids come on now you can't bring logic like that on here!

As we are currently paying for those of pension age and providing services to them.

Nobody is saying that nobody should have children. Just that they can pay for their childcare themselves.

@Dreamstate

Not one single response for all those saying for more childcare help..

ANSWER IT THEN....

WHAT DO SINGLE CHILDFREE PEOLPLE GET IN FORM OF TAX BREAKS OR BENEFITS THAT PEOLLE WITH CHILDREN DONT?

not nhs, not anything that we all pay for BUT NAME ONE single thing we get?

Can you do it? No you can't and yet you have the sheer fucking audacity to tell us we should pay more taxes to help you out and that we are selfish its about greater good blah blah blah...well what do you do for me specially? What do you contribute to me that you don't get? Naff all that's what

And we are overpopulated on this planet we don't need to churn out babies to keep the human race going so yes at this point is it a lifestyle choice!

You’re happy to subsidise for a universal healthcare despite you won’t use many of the things you’re not subsiding but you’re not happy to pay for a universal childcare despite those kids might one day have a better future if their parents could afford childcare instead of giving up their careers to take care of them.

There also complains that some mums don’t work as hard because they have to reduce their hours therefore the burden of their work relies in those childless. If a mum could benefit from subsidised childcare then they could probably work full time and don’t relay so much in those that are there always.

If your problem is that the world is overpopulated then that’s a different story. It has nothing to do with childcare

@dongke but they can afford childcare 2 high rate taxpayers , much more so
Like i said £6000 ish take home even with £2000 in fees thats £4000 left , you can still have a good lifestyle on that
A couple bringing home say £2500 even without childcare costs are way worse off with all same bills to pay

And by not having children, childfree people save the cost of education and healthcare (not to mention the climate). So we contribute plenty thank you

So no they don't need subsidising , in fact if your paying £2000 you could probably get a nanny slightly cheaper
A nanny is double that amount.

@worriedatthemoment but why shouldn't someone on 100k get help with childcare? I think it should be for all for society.

In the same way you don't lose access to free prescriptions or free travel or state pensions if you used to be a higher earner.

What free prescriptions?

@forinborin your paying off childcare debts from 5 years ago when you earn over £50000 , how many kids did you have

What free prescriptions?

perhaps you should google who gets these

[quote worriedatthemoment]@forinborin your paying off childcare debts from 5 years ago when you earn over £50000 , how many kids did you have
[/quote]
Two. Nothing extravagant. As I said, my nursery fees were around £3K/ month, as for many other people on this thread, and I had to live and feed them too. It is obviously better now that they both are at school, all in all with wraparound and holiday childcare around £1300/month, and my income has also increased.

@dongke because they have a high wage and then if its subsidised more ( because it is from 3 ) then the poor just get poorer as taxes have to go up for them to to subsidise those on a much higher income
Should we also give Free meals to those high rate tax payers kids as well
Actually to be fair lets just have a wage limit so we all earn equal as thats actually much fairer as well
Just because someone earns Siz fugures doesn't mean they work harder than someone who doesn't

And by not having children, childfree people save the cost of education and healthcare (not to mention the climate). So we contribute plenty thank you

Surely it's not so black & white though. What about a childfree person who travels a lot, what about a childfree person who has a chronic condition & does use healthcare. What about a childfree person who is a low earner so therefore so contributing enough tax in general.

@forinborin you could of got a nanny for a lot less than that so why pay £3000 a month in nursery fees , sorry but I don't but that

@dongke

I think the government should help fund it more, it benefits society. There is a reason our birth rate is in free fall so we are going need more of those immigrants that people seem to keen to get rid off.

The drop on birth rate seems to have more to do with things other than childcare. I’m not sure many people actually think too deeply about childcare before having children. It’s just assumed it is available and it generally is.

Most reasons for the fall in birth rate wouldn’t be changed by free childcare. Things like women realising they don’t have to have children at all and they can travel or pursue their interests instead. The fact that a single wage used to be enough to secure a family home but now young couples who would have been thinking of starting families can’t buy or rent secure, affordable housing to do that.

Tbh I’d rather see the government tackle the housing crisis. I think it would benefit more families and enable families to make more realistic decisions about childcare. It’s also costing an absolute fortune in equity loans, Help to buy type schemes, etc for the government to avoid having to take on the vested interests that prevent the housing crisis being sorted out. Perhaps if they did free childcare might be a secondary project. Affordable, ample, high quality, environmentally friendly housing makes everything easier for all families, regardless of income.

They could also do a lot to encourage more employers to offer part time opportunities for men and women.

But free childcare for all? No, it’s not a priority and there’s not really an economic argument because the childcare of those on low pay is already subsidised by 85%.

@MakingM2 exactly this

@worriedatthemoment you are missing my point. I haven't said people who earn more work harder or that lower earners shouldn't have more help.

You are also confusing the idea between the free hours at 3. This policy wasn't because the government wanted to help but they wanted to keep women & higher earners in work as they collect more tax that way.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@forinborin you could of got a nanny for a lot less than that so why pay £3000 a month in nursery fees , sorry but I don't but that [/quote]
No, you can't get a nanny for less, never mind lot less.
I had a nanny at some point too, but due to other issues, not as a first choice. Remember that you are also paying all her holiday allowance, taxes and pension contributions as her employer, so the cost to the employer is not what the nanny gets as take home.

@dongke

And by not having children, childfree people save the cost of education and healthcare (not to mention the climate). So we contribute plenty thank you

Surely it's not so black & white though. What about a childfree person who travels a lot, what about a childfree person who has a chronic condition & does use healthcare. What about a childfree person who is a low earner so therefore so contributing enough tax in general.

And what about a parent who does all those things? Does one person's chronic condition cost more than maternity care/education and subsidises for say two children?

What about if a parent has a chronic condition?

It's a silly argument

[quote worriedatthemoment]@dongke because they have a high wage and then if its subsidised more ( because it is from 3 ) then the poor just get poorer as taxes have to go up for them to to subsidise those on a much higher income
Should we also give Free meals to those high rate tax payers kids as well
Actually to be fair lets just have a wage limit so we all earn equal as thats actually much fairer as well
Just because someone earns Siz fugures doesn't mean they work harder than someone who doesn't

[/quote]
Why should I earn the same after my degree and the work I’ve done to be where I’m as someone who gave up school, didn’t want to study? Is that how you promote that people become doctors / business managers etc ? By everyone earning the same ?is that really fair? Would everyone get free childcare ?

Ps I’m not saying really low income people don’t work as hard as me. Im pretty sure they do. But as many of you keep repeating its all lifestyle choices. I decided to go to uni so that I could have the lifestyle I’ve nowadays whilst many others dropped off school and of course they can’t enter some jobs because they won’t have the skills.

I don't think childcare should be free for all & haven't said that.

@MakingM2 there is no doubt that women are choosing to not have dc & it's a valid choice but it's also clear that many people are having children later & having less because life is so expensive. Housing & childcare is all wrapped up in that.

@forinborin funny as I know people who have a nanny for less and I am aware of holiday allowance etc ,
£3000 a month for 2 children Is high though unless for 60 hrs a week especially if over 5 years ago and a childminder would of been cheaper again ,