To think we should be protesting

[Jessieabs]

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

@Pythonista

Oh boo how. Are you really suggesting that lower rate taxpayers (as in paid less!) should subsidise richer people because they live in an expensive part of the country? Wow.

Lol. OK, let every parent move out from the expensive parts of the country. That'll solve the problem.

@EasterIssland the link you provide shows much higher rates in total

@EasterIssland its showing 24% for what would be 20% here in total

@Pythonista

Oh boo how. Are you really suggesting that lower rate taxpayers (as in paid less!) should subsidise richer people because they live in an expensive part of the country? Wow.

Not sure where I said that but that’s ok. However many of you are suggesting that people shouldn’t have children if they can’t afford it. Guess what ! Rich will be able to have children , poor not so much. Are you suggesting poor shouldn’t have children at all? Wow

@forinborin no but you don't have to own expensive cars and have foreign holidays , lunches out etc
We are not talking people on £10000 having to skip a meal because of childcare are we , maybe not having luxuries for a couple of years if they have 2 close together

[quote worriedatthemoment]@EasterIssland the link you provide shows much higher rates in total [/quote]
It doesn’t say that there is a *
It should be taken into account that the "regional rate" column contains the rates applicable to personal income tax payers who do not reside in Spain. Taxpayers residing in Spain must replace them by the scale approved by the autonomous community in which they have to declare

Many areas will have a Small % for those living there. I know the tax my sister or my family pay and also what they pay for their kids childcare. Why should I lie ?

Lol. OK, let every parent move out from the expensive parts of the country. That'll solve the problem.

Yeah because that's exactly what I said

If you are educated and intelligent enough to be doing a job that pays into the higher tax bracket, you should be educated and intelligent enough to be able to be able to fund childcare for your own children.

We are begrudging paying more tax to fund childcare for higher rate taxpayers
I can’t speak for everyone on my “side” of this debate, but, for example, AFAICR the WEP model (apparently fully costed universal childcare) was not funded by raising basic rate taxes, and actually I don’t think individual taxpayers at all. So if that’s your only issue with this concept then I think you have nothing to worry about. Although personally I have no issue with increasing taxes on higher earners (which I am) especially very high earners who pay proportionally less in tax than low earners do. Seeing as 32% of voters supported Labour in 2019 whose manifesto included increasing taxes on earners >£80k (according to google 3% of all adults) and increasing employers NI contributions on salaries >£300k for example, I’m not alone in being open to some tax raises to better fund public services.

If it doesn’t affect your personal tax bill, do you still object?

For the millionth time - we are saying that it's fine for poorer people to have subsidised childcare but actually the rich can pay for it themselves

@Pythonista

Lol. OK, let every parent move out from the expensive parts of the country. That'll solve the problem.

Yeah because that's exactly what I said

If you are educated and intelligent enough to be doing a job that pays into the higher tax bracket, you should be educated and intelligent enough to be able to be able to fund childcare for your own children.

So let me put it right.

You as a childless person are happy to pay someone’s child’s childcare if they are not a high earner. But if they are a high earner then you don’t want to fund it. I thought your problem was that you didn’t want as a childless person to pay for other people’s childcare because it’s a lifestyle choice

Yes I do still object. Even if it doesn't cost me personally a penny.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@forinborin do you not think most of us have to take this into account and either have a break or a larger gap so you don't have two in nursery before getting the 30hrs free [/quote]
How big of a gap could a professional woman aged, say 35 (we are talking good careers / excellent salaries here, right?) afford to take between the children?
Hmm... maybe, we say, she should have started 5 years prior to that, aged 30. But wait, that's when they bought their starter flat and were ears deep in debt, still paying off their student debts. That would've been reckless, right?
OK, maybe she should have started when she was 25, freshly out of the grad school, in the first years of her career. But then, she would not have been able to afford childcare even for one to return to the workplace for several years at all, not on a grad salary.
So what's the magic solution?

I think the government should help fund it more, it benefits society.
There is a reason our birth rate is in free fall so we are going need more of those immigrants that people seem to keen to get rid off.

@EasterIssland but the table you listed doesn't back up what you say and neither did others

@forinborin the magic solution is what wvery other person has to do
We have free childcare from 3 ( well mostly covered) we offer free childcare to those on lower incomes
So my magical solution would be for those on high incomes forgo some luxuries, cheaper car , mis a holiday , you know all those things that those in lower wages do

Get a job that works around your offspring. One parent works school hours, other works night shift. Don't see why the government and tax payers must subsidies your choice to have children.

Do you think the government should subsidise anyone?

@dongke they do for those on lower incomes , higher rate taxpayers don't need more funding , they do get it from 3 and also maternity time / paternity etc so only a few years to pay for

A couple on say £50000 each bring home about £6000
This js not a small amount and even with childcare costs of £2000 they have a healthy income , way more than many have
So no they don't need subsidising , in fact if your paying £2000 you could probably get a nanny slightly cheaper

previous generations also wanted and expected less
Im only in my 40's and when I was at school , many wore 2nd hand clothes, no foreign holidays, 1 tv in the house , decorating done every 15 years etc
Even when I had my kids 18 years ago i stopped work as childcare was a lot and we went down to one car , no holidays etc , made sacrifices

What makes you think families don't make similar "sacrifices" these days?

[quote worriedatthemoment]@forinborin the magic solution is what wvery other person has to do
We have free childcare from 3 ( well mostly covered) we offer free childcare to those on lower incomes
So my magical solution would be for those on high incomes forgo some luxuries, cheaper car , mis a holiday , you know all those things that those in lower wages do [/quote]
Again it’s not free childcare from 3yo. So that i can wfh my son goes full time to nursery. I still pay£700/month for him.
Yea I could work less hours but guess what my salary could be cut and so would be the taxes

Not sure what kind of holidays you take , the ones i take abroad the most expensive one was 5k years ago when I was childless. That wouldn’t pay my sons nursery fees.

I meant so that I can work full time my son works full time to nursery

@worriedatthemoment well some get it from age 3. How much tax you pay doesn't necessarily correlate with high much paid maternity you get.

Not one single response for all those saying for more childcare help..

ANSWER IT THEN....

WHAT DO SINGLE CHILDFREE PEOLPLE GET IN FORM OF TAX BREAKS OR BENEFITS THAT PEOLLE WITH CHILDREN DONT?

not nhs, not anything that we all pay for BUT NAME ONE single thing we get?

Can you do it? No you can't and yet you have the sheer fucking audacity to tell us we should pay more taxes to help you out and that we are selfish its about greater good blah blah blah...well what do you do for me specially? What do you contribute to me that you don't get? Naff all that's what

And we are overpopulated on this planet we don't need to churn out babies to keep the human race going so yes at this point is it a lifestyle choice!

I don't really understand the logic that if you earn a higher amount but can't afford childcare then you should suck it up & not have kids or stick at 1 but it's ok to be subsidised if on a lower income.

The question of "why should I fund other people's choices" could equally be asked about pension.

When you're getting a pension from the government, or frankly, any services you don't pay for yourself at all when you're no longer working, whose choices exactly are paying for it?

It doesn't take a genius or economist to work out that is the choices of people to have children that create a working population who can pay for people in their old age who are no longer working.

Even if you saved and invested and paid for all of your pension yourself, you must realise there have to be people of working age to work and provide services that you need. Without those people being born to, I don't know, other people who made the choice to have children, you'd have no food, bin collection, maintained roads, doctors or anything else in your old age.

Without people having children there would be no society.
Sorry, having children is essential to society not collapsing within a generation.
Who is it you're relying on to have those children to keep society functioning?

Other people choosing not to have children is a choice everyone in society has to pay for as well.

Let's stop pretending we can function without people giving birth and raising kids.