To think we should be protesting

[Jessieabs]

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Peoniesandpeaches previous generations also wanted and expected less
Im only in my 40's and when I was at school , many wore 2nd hand clothes, no foreign holidays, 1 tv in the house , decorating done every 15 years etc
Even when I had my kids 18 years ago i stopped work as childcare was a lot and we went down to one car , no holidays etc , made sacrifices [/quote]
This! I have only been abroad once in my 50 years (a weekend in France), our parents had to work round each other, from the age of 11 we were expected to let ourselves into the house alone and often start the evening meal.

As @cwenthryrh says, it's an investment in our future. Children are the future. If we all just stopped having kids, where are the next generation of nurses, doctors, teachers going to come from?

We should be protesting about a lot of things. Many many things at the moment. I'm not sure why we're not. It's very odd.

We all pay for children to be educated - it's the asking for more that takes the piss

@AICM

Men don't really need to do anything to keep women down. Other women are more than happy to do it for them.

Any MRA reading this will be pissing themselves laughing.

There is no hope that women will ever have equality with men. There are mechanisms that work on a societal level to tip the balance away from women. And it's women that want to keep them.

Unbelievable.

Yep childfree women should mindlessly support mothers other woman

There are lots of the things the government should not be funding. Subsidizing childcare removes the reason from people not to work and would actually cut the welfare bill. We have a la our shortage and a huge welfare bill. Funding childcare would be the answer to both. But the bleeding heart brigade that likes to see people stuck in the culture of dependency would not like that. So it’s not happening.

Universal childcare - parents benefit
Nope, disagree, we all benefit from parents, especially mothers, having the freedom to remain in the workplace regardless of their income level. Progressing in their careers, contributing to the economy, reducing loss of skills and experience, equalising the sex pay gap, reducing reluctance to employ women in case they have children (yes, technically illegal, still happens). Parents, especially mothers, earning more to support their own families, improving outcomes for their own children and therefore the next generation are better placed to be active contributing members of our society. And onward it goes. Everyone benefits.

Sorry but if you have kids they’re your responsibility, as a tax payer without children I resent the idea of paying to look after your children. If you can’t afford them don’t have them, if you can’t afford to work whilst having them don’t have them. You chose this lifestyle so pay for it yourself.

🤗

The argument that we already pay for education so anything more is a pisstake is bizarre. Any person who grew up in the UK and went to state school would have had a free education. Do you begrudge yourself that?

If your parents had had a little more help getting by when you were growing up, would you have thought it was taking the piss, or would you have thought it was really great to see your mum earning her own money and excelling in her career?

@Pythonista

What do childfree people get that parents don't? That was my (slightly tongue in cheek) point

Thank you!!!

@WhoIsBernieBrown

The argument that we already pay for education so anything more is a pisstake is bizarre. Any person who grew up in the UK and went to state school would have had a free education. Do you begrudge yourself that?

If your parents had had a little more help getting by when you were growing up, would you have thought it was taking the piss, or would you have thought it was really great to see your mum earning her own money and excelling in her career?

My mother DID earn her own money and has had an incredibly successful career, including running her own business. But thanks for assuming otherwise

I don't begrudge education - of course not. My point is that people are asking for extra help financially as well

I wouldn't support more subsidy just for childcare but I would get behind a policy that gave women more choice.

That could be subsidised childcare, but it could equally be making it more affordable for a woman to stay at home during the early years if she wants, or a policy to ensure companies don't punish women for taking time out, or a social change so it's just as acceptable for men to take time away from their careers to raise kids.

In terms of it being "good for the economy" to get women back to work as quickly as possible, that depends on how you choose to measure the economy. If we started including all the unpaid labour that women (mostly) do then our economy would grow hugely overnight.

@firstimemamma

"Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness!"

It doesn't really seem like madness to me, that's 2 children looked after all day every day (presumably) for an entire month. I can think of other things I'd rather protest about.

I know.. £50 per child per day is a bargain.

@sst1234

There are lots of the things the government should not be funding. Subsidizing childcare removes the reason from people not to work and would actually cut the welfare bill. We have a la our shortage and a huge welfare bill. Funding childcare would be the answer to both. But the bleeding heart brigade that likes to see people stuck in the culture of dependency would not like that. So it’s not happening.

By my rationale, if you have the sort of job where it makes sense to be a SAHP over working, you will not be reducing any welfare bills, the government will be laying for your childcare, rather than paying you. You might get more people into the labour market, but then you're just using people's tax money (I'm the form of childcare payments) to make labour cheaper for corporations. Labour shortages are only real in the sense that companies aren't prepared to raise wages to provide increased incentives to work for them. We have a ~5% unemployment rate in the UK. A lack of bodies isn't the problem.

To any of the “I resent my tax money being spent on other peoples children” brigade - do you also begrudge free school meals? Just trying to gauge the kind of people we are debating with here as I suspect we may be poles apart on the political spectrum and approaching things from very different angles with regards to social conscience.

I'm torn on this one.

On one hand, I look at friends in other counties who had much better subsidised childcare and feel envy.

I remember vividly how unfair it felt at the time, when half our combined income went on childcare, just so that we'd both have jobs to go back to. Especially when much of it is the much of the draw- a different career choice or different choice of dh may have meant the childcare bill wasn't such a big percentage.

But then, it's only for a few years. Yes, the thought of the cost of12 years of childcare does hurt, but I wonder how much I'd have lost if I'd given up work for those years. And I'd be trying to get back into a job.

I had a state funded education and then left at 17 to start earning. Everyone should have access to that.

The country pays towards childcare for benefit claimants - which is right.

But if you are a 40% taxpayer then it's taking the piss to expect standard taxpayers to fund you

@Cwenthryth no i wouldn't be for means tested free childcare etc or subsidised ( as in what we have ) but I don't think subsidised childcare for 2 parents who pay The 40% tax rate therefore on £100 k a year should be top priority , same as I wouldn't want to pay for their child to have a free meal, but ai have no problem a child having a free meal whose parents are on min wage etc

@Cwenthryth

To any of the “I resent my tax money being spent on other peoples children” brigade - do you also begrudge free school meals? Just trying to gauge the kind of people we are debating with here as I suspect we may be poles apart on the political spectrum and approaching things from very different angles with regards to social conscience.

No of course not.

Just to be clear - the issue is further subsidised childcare. Not education. Not school meals

But if you are a 40% taxpayer then it's taking the piss to expect standard taxpayers to fund you
A 40% single parent taxpayer, for example, may well not be able to pay just for the nursery and rent in the SE. Never mind eating.

I was talking to my mum about this and wondered how much impact the raising of the retirement age for women from 60 to 67 has had on the increased need for childcare. Ie your Mum might have been able to help out more with children when she was retired at 60 but now she's at work herself and not available as much so you have to use childcare instead. I'm sure this must have had an impact

As a mother of three I saved up for four years before having my desperately wanted first. Parenthood is a choice, other people who choose not to become parents should not have to pay for our choices.

@pythonista fair enough, good for her! My mum didn't, and has never had the career she wanted because she couldn't afford to work when we were younger, and that was ages ago when things were cheap.

@WhoIsBernieBrown but some would still not have more would they?
Those on min wage jobs to get help with childcare costs but they will still be worse off Than those on say £100000 joint income , and then your asking people to subsidise them so they also have more
We do have childcare help for those on lower wages , lets not forget that

Because children are a country's future! That's why gov should subsidise. In Italy childcare costs 200 euros a month. Same in Germany and Spain and Greece and Portugal. The why should I fund your lifestyle people, should education also only be private then? How about people who get lung cancer, cos they smoked? Where do you draw the line?