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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we should be protesting

747 replies

Jessieabs · 10/10/2021 20:08

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

OP posts:
Pythonista · 10/10/2021 21:49

Childfree people contribute towards people having children in plenty of ways - not just financial. The childfree are the ones expected to cover maternity leave (because companies can't/won't get cover), they often get their choice of annual leave limited. And that's fine (sort of). But don't take the piss

forinborin · 10/10/2021 21:50

@coolhwip

12% or salary already goes on education.

How much more are childless people supposed to stump up for childcare?!

I doubt very much that 12% of salary is going on education.
PurpleOkapi · 10/10/2021 21:50

SEX pay gap is obviously intrinsically linked to cost of childcare being a major obstacle to women progressing in their careers.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Childcare costs the same regardless of which parent ends up missing work due to its expense or unavailability. The reasons that parent is usually a woman are usually due to the choices of the individuals involved, which are usually coloured by an earning disparity between the couple even before they had children. If one parent earns significantly more than the other, then of course the lower-earning parent will be the one taking the career hit, because everyone will be less screwed if/when the lower-earning parent eventually gets fired over it than if the higher-earning parent got fired over it.

surreygirl1987 · 10/10/2021 21:51

@tararhu I couldn't agree more.

WhoIsBernieBrown · 10/10/2021 21:53

@surreygirl1987 I was going to say the same to you! You are totally spot on

PurpleOkapi · 10/10/2021 21:53

@Cwenthryth

Car accident victims are treated on the NHS and we all have access to it. So that's a false comparison.

Hmm, no comparing a proposal for universal childcare with currently existing universal healthcare…..seems a fair enough analogy to be honest.

I mean, I guess technically a person could choose never to use any kind of healthcare. If they're lucky, they might even make it to 60+ without dying. But I don't think choosing to remain alive or treat existing physical conditions is comparable to choosing to have a child. I wouldn't call the former a "lifestyle choice" unless we're talking about some pretty esoteric wellness practices that I doubt NHS covers.

That said, there are plenty of good arguments against national healthcare, too. The outsized expense of treating those with lifestyle-related conditions is one of them.

worriedatthemoment · 10/10/2021 21:54

If the government subsidises more than they do , where do you think this money comes from and who will ultimately pay for it

EnidFrighten · 10/10/2021 21:55

I'm with you OP. I think there should be free universal childcare and higher taxes to pay for it. Society needs new citizens more than it needs anything else. Currently we rely on women being prepared to do a lot of unpaid, unrecognised labour.

worriedatthemoment · 10/10/2021 21:55

Also have a look how much tax is paid in may of the subsidised countries along with the population size

Cwenthryth · 10/10/2021 21:56

How much more are childless people supposed to stump up for childcare?!
You’re still looking at this the wrong way around, as childcare/education being a burden on society. It’s investment in our society. Do we begrudge what is spent on physical infrastructure? No, you can point at the roads and bridges and train lines etc we have to show for it (please let’s not get sidetracked into the rights/wrongs of specific projects though!). Investment in childcare, education, social care is similarly an investment in our society, by investing in people, reducing barriers to participating in society/the economy as much as possible. A more equal society is better for us all.

EasterIssland · 10/10/2021 21:56

“ I mean, I guess technically a person could choose never to use any kind of healthcar”

But in my original comment I wasn’t talking about any kind of healthcare. I was talking about car accident victims. It’s a lifestyle choice , we’re happy to pay for their treatment (I’m at least ) but it’s a lifestyle choice at the end of the day the same as having children.

Why can we have universal healthcare but asking for universal childcare it’s treated as a woman is selfish for asking for it ?

surreygirl1987 · 10/10/2021 21:57

@purpleokapi I disagree. You are correct that it is often the lower paid parent who stays at home or goes part time (if either of them) but that is more often than not the women... because women overall earn less than men... and this is linked to historic roles of women as the child carer. It's a vicious cycle.

Also, many workplaces are more accepting of a woman going part time or being a stay at home parent than a man. Yes this is changing thankfully, but not enough. When my husband and I discussed which of us would go part time (because we worked out that at that point, we'd be financially better off than if we both stayed full time- ridiculous!) we agreed it would be me, even though my husband would have liked to have done so more. This is because we felt going part time might have a greater negative impact on his career than on mine, as only women in his workplace worked part time and no men. We felt that is would be more accepted (or even expected) for me to interrupt my career than for him. It shouldn't be like this, but it is, and I'm angry for contributing to this unfair system myself by making that decision. But the responses on this post amaze me. Can people really not see the bigger picture?!

nosyupnorth · 10/10/2021 21:58

The rest of society is already subsidising the raising of your children from through the education system for thirteen years and you're begruding paying for the first few????

If you didn't want to pay for them, contraception is free.

Pythonista · 10/10/2021 21:58

@EnidFrighten

I'm with you OP. I think there should be free universal childcare and higher taxes to pay for it. Society needs new citizens more than it needs anything else. Currently we rely on women being prepared to do a lot of unpaid, unrecognised labour.
What about existing citizens? They have to fork out more tax so others can choose to have children
worriedatthemoment · 10/10/2021 21:59

@OnlyFoolsnMothers what there house they worked for and paid taxes etc on as well
Not there fault previous goverments never saved money back : made poor choices
What do you think is far that we force them to sell these homes and give the money for childcare

Pythonista · 10/10/2021 21:59

@EasterIssland

“ I mean, I guess technically a person could choose never to use any kind of healthcar”

But in my original comment I wasn’t talking about any kind of healthcare. I was talking about car accident victims. It’s a lifestyle choice , we’re happy to pay for their treatment (I’m at least ) but it’s a lifestyle choice at the end of the day the same as having children.

Why can we have universal healthcare but asking for universal childcare it’s treated as a woman is selfish for asking for it ?

Universal healthcare - all citizens benefit

Universal childcare - parents benefit

EasterIssland · 10/10/2021 22:01

“ Universal healthcare - all citizens benefit

Universal childcare - parents benefit”

Sure because the doctor that is treating most likely might have needed childcare in their life.

StarfishDish · 10/10/2021 22:01

[quote worriedatthemoment]@OnlyFoolsnMothers what there house they worked for and paid taxes etc on as well
Not there fault previous goverments never saved money back : made poor choices
What do you think is far that we force them to sell these homes and give the money for childcare
[/quote]
This!!!

TaraRhu · 10/10/2021 22:01

@Cwenthryth well said. Good quality childcare gives future generations a decent start in life and helps them reach their potential.

worriedatthemoment · 10/10/2021 22:02

@Peoniesandpeaches previous generations also wanted and expected less
Im only in my 40's and when I was at school , many wore 2nd hand clothes, no foreign holidays, 1 tv in the house , decorating done every 15 years etc
Even when I had my kids 18 years ago i stopped work as childcare was a lot and we went down to one car , no holidays etc , made sacrifices

DreamingofTimbuktu · 10/10/2021 22:04

Why? We’ve got an NHS that’s barely functioning in caring for the critically ill, you need to pay for your own choices.

forinborin · 10/10/2021 22:04

Why can we have universal healthcare but asking for universal childcare it’s treated as a woman is selfish for asking for it ?
This is actually a very fair comparison. My friends in several European countries discuss UK childcare with approximately the same horror as mumsnet usually mentions US healthcare.

worriedatthemoment · 10/10/2021 22:04

@Jessieabs and what are the populations of those countries

AICM · 10/10/2021 22:05

Men don't really need to do anything to keep women down. Other women are more than happy to do it for them.

Any MRA reading this will be pissing themselves laughing.

There is no hope that women will ever have equality with men. There are mechanisms that work on a societal level to tip the balance away from women. And it's women that want to keep them.

Unbelievable.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 10/10/2021 22:07

If childcare were to be subsidised more, it should only be for one child. Any subsequent children should be paid at the full rate.