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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think holding children down for “educational” purposes is bad?

305 replies

MakingM2 · 09/10/2021 12:26

I watched “Don’t exclude me” last night and there were some interesting ideas but I’ll cut to the chase.

In one scene, if you haven’t seen it, the teacher is physically restraining a very young boy who clearly has additional needs. They are basically on the floor in the playground. She is holding him down. He is pulling her hair. It’s all fairly horrific. She claims this is “trauma informed practice”.

The deputy head said - it feels wrong when you do it and it feels wrong when someone else does it.

…and my thought is “Sir, that’s because it is wrong”. You are teaching this tiny child that a more powerful person can physically force them to submit to their will - and that this is something that is ok. You may as well get a cane out.

Having been a governor in two primaries and friends with teachers and teacher trainers, I personally can’t imagine many teachers would want to undertake this kind of “behaviour management” even if the children do become more compliant afterwards.

And it occurred to me, given we think that observing violence is bad for children, should we really be doing this type of thing?

So am I being unreasonable to think violence (of any kind, with any justification) has no place in an educational environment?

YABU - nah, this is fine, stop being so precious
YANBU - education should be violence free

OP posts:
MoiraRose4 · 09/10/2021 12:29

Sometimes children have to be held for their own safety and the safety of others. I didn’t see what you’re referring to, so can’t comment on that. But if a child is being violent, to others or to themselves, what would you propose?

Evasmithsghost · 09/10/2021 12:29

I’ve only ever had to physically restrain a child once, in eighteen years of teaching. But I haven’t seen the programme so can’t comment on the context.

MichelleScarn · 09/10/2021 12:30

What was the context OP?

Feenie · 09/10/2021 12:31

It's about stopping a child from being violent and hurting themselves and others, and absolutely should only be done by trained professionals. Of course it isn't violent. And yes, it's horrible to have to do, but the alternative (child hurting others/themselves) is worse.

What would you prefer?

AnotherLauraLou · 09/10/2021 12:32

I watched the same episode and have a child who is autistic, I can’t imagine anyone holding him down and the thought of it upsets me. It wasn’t nice to watch. However I don’t know a lot about it either. I don’t agree with exclusion though, how does that benefit a primary aged child? It doesn’t mean anything. It is very hard to get any help or understanding for children with additional needs in main stream school.

She mentioned she had previously worked with other children, what was her background as I missed other episodes?

romdowa · 09/10/2021 12:32

I've worked in social care and there are several steps that have to be taken before physical restraint is allowed to be used. Sadly it does have to be used for the persons safety as well as the safety of the people around them. I doubt many professionals restrain a child or adult lightly

AnotherLauraLou · 09/10/2021 12:34

The child in question was about 6? They were restraining him in the playground.

Gardenlass · 09/10/2021 12:34

Genuine question. What would you suggest, OP, if a child is being violent at school? Restraining them is for the protection of themselves and those around them.

CatJumperTwat · 09/10/2021 12:35

Restraining someone is not "violence."

What do you do if a child is attacking someone and pulling their hair? Ask them nicely not to?

TheChip · 09/10/2021 12:35

My son has been restrained by teachers before, to the point he has had bruises. Id much rather a few bruises and him being restrained than for him to have lashed out further to either injure himself or others.

Even he himself understands now that he is older why it was done, and is glad that it was. In that moment, he had lost control. In a calmer and more mature state of mind, he dreads to think of what could have happened. So it helps future them, too, I guess.

parrotonmyshoulder · 09/10/2021 12:36

Haven’t seen what you’re referring to. However, are you not able to imagine situations where this is indeed necessary? If the alternative is that the child attacks other children or staff, runs away from safety, tears up a room? Have you never needed to hold a crying baby or toddler who is unable to exert self control?

KingdomScrolls · 09/10/2021 12:36

My aunt is a deputy head in a SEN specialist school, she's very experienced and qualified. In addition she's vegan, Buddhist and against all forms of violence and aggression which gives you an usually into her mindset. Sometimes they have to restrain the children to prevent them causing harm to themselves or others. This is a fully trained strategy and there are mechanisms individual to each child to support their emotional regulation and safety, it's a last resort and the welfare of the child is paramount throughout. Some of the eleven year olds they have are as big as young adults and just as strong. I haven't seen the programme you're talking about, but context is key and you won't always get that with a television editing.

Whinge · 09/10/2021 12:36

@Gardenlass

Genuine question. What would you suggest, OP, if a child is being violent at school? Restraining them is for the protection of themselves and those around them.
I'd also like to know what the OP suggests should happen. OP would you prefer that the child hurt themselves or others?
Original poster
MakingM2 · 09/10/2021 12:38

@AnotherLauraLou

I watched the same episode and have a child who is autistic, I can’t imagine anyone holding him down and the thought of it upsets me. It wasn’t nice to watch. However I don’t know a lot about it either. I don’t agree with exclusion though, how does that benefit a primary aged child? It doesn’t mean anything. It is very hard to get any help or understanding for children with additional needs in main stream school.

She mentioned she had previously worked with other children, what was her background as I missed other episodes?

Her previous experience was as head of a PRU. My DH had worked in them and this stuff, and worse, is pretty standard in PRUs.
OP posts:
MyCatEatsPrawnCrackers · 09/10/2021 12:38

I agree that Education should be violence free, so if a child is being violent to others then he/she should be stopped. If that means by restraint as a last resort, then so be it.

Sirzy · 09/10/2021 12:38

Well if 6 year old is being “violent” on a presumably secure playground then I can think of many steps that could be taken before physically restraining them.

What is often forgotten is that the behaviour will have a cause and too often the cause of that behaviour isn’t examined we just respond to the behaviour.

Justanotherquestioner · 09/10/2021 12:41

I can see situations that my child may need to be restrained. In the right situation, holding him gives him that container to let those emotions out and then calm. So far only me and my husband have had to do it. It's certainly a safety thing

Somebodylikeyew · 09/10/2021 12:42

You aren’t answering the question, OP.
What would you have them do instead?

IWantT0BreakFree · 09/10/2021 12:42

I haven't seen the programme. You say he was pulling her hair - was he behaving violently and being restrained to prevent further lashing out? What else should she have done? Allowed him to physically attack her/other children or hurt himself?

Original poster
MakingM2 · 09/10/2021 12:43

@MoiraRose4

Sometimes children have to be held for their own safety and the safety of others. I didn’t see what you’re referring to, so can’t comment on that. But if a child is being violent, to others or to themselves, what would you propose?
What would I suggest…

That children who are a danger to themselves and others might need more adjustments to receive an education that meets their needs than a mainstream environment can offer them?

I’m not sure that keeping all the children together in one kind of provision is desirable if physically restraining children, and other children seeing children physically restrained because they are a danger to them, is what it takes tbh

But I’m interested to hear what the general “online” feeling about it is.

OP posts:
callingon · 09/10/2021 12:43

I haven’t seen this so don’t know if it was an over- reaction but there are certainly times when it’s appropriate to hold a young person and when it will actually de-escalate a situation really effectively. It’s not about compliance (or it shouldn’t be) it’s about keeping people, including children, safe.

Hamtonn · 09/10/2021 12:44

Restraint is sometimes necessary to prevent children (or adults) with additional needs from hurting others. It depends why the child was being restrained I suppose.

Whyarewehardofthinking · 09/10/2021 12:46

Sometimes restraint has to be used by teachers, but it will only be trained staff unless in an extreme emergency situation. In all situations it is to prevent harm to the student or other students. Whilst it isn't pleasant for anyone involved there is a full review everything it is needed to ensure it was an appropriate response.

I would rather restrain a student (and have done) than allow to attack someone else in an absolute rage where every other step has failed, or if they are determined to hurt themselves. Restraint is the better option in these cases.

Original poster
MakingM2 · 09/10/2021 12:46

@Feenie

It's about stopping a child from being violent and hurting themselves and others, and absolutely should only be done by trained professionals. Of course it isn't violent. And yes, it's horrible to have to do, but the alternative (child hurting others/themselves) is worse.

What would you prefer?

I’d challenge the idea that it isn’t violent to be physically restrained by someone against your will - even if you are a child and they are a “fully trained” adult.

Violence is still violence, whatever the justification.

OP posts:
AnotherLauraLou · 09/10/2021 12:46

You say he was pulling her hair - was he behaving violently and being restrained to prevent further lashing out?

No he was pulling her hair because she was restraining him.