AIBU to think holding children down for “educational” purposes is bad?

[MakingM2]

I watched “Don’t exclude me” last night and there were some interesting ideas but I’ll cut to the chase.

In one scene, if you haven’t seen it, the teacher is physically restraining a very young boy who clearly has additional needs. They are basically on the floor in the playground. She is holding him down. He is pulling her hair. It’s all fairly horrific. She claims this is “trauma informed practice”.

The deputy head said - it feels wrong when you do it and it feels wrong when someone else does it.

…and my thought is “Sir, that’s because it is wrong”. You are teaching this tiny child that a more powerful person can physically force them to submit to their will - and that this is something that is ok. You may as well get a cane out.

Having been a governor in two primaries and friends with teachers and teacher trainers, I personally can’t imagine many teachers would want to undertake this kind of “behaviour management” even if the children do become more compliant afterwards.

And it occurred to me, given we think that observing violence is bad for children, should we really be doing this type of thing?

So am I being unreasonable to think violence (of any kind, with any justification) has no place in an educational environment?

YABU - nah, this is fine, stop being so precious
YANBU - education should be violence free

I saw this example and in the context I thought it was wrong as the playground was secure and there were no other children in it at the time. He was running off and doing the opposite of what he was told. I'm sure there are circumstances where restraint is needed to prevent injury but I don't think this was one of them.

@x2boys

I havent seen the programme, but im guessing they were using Team Teach, my son has severe autism and learning disabilities and goes to a special school, i have had to sign a, plan to say he can be restrained if necessary, of course in an ideal world i wouldnt want this but if it keeps him and others safe, then i accept it, incidentally my son is a biter and a scratcher, last year there was a child in his class who had similar needs to him, and went for him and bit him underneath his eye, if his teachers hadent restrained the other child, than my child could have lost his eye

They weren't using Team Teach. It was disappointing the example they set.

Restraint should be a very very last resort. I saw the programme and this restraint was wholly unnecessary. The lad went to kick a bucket of balls and slipped. The adult then pounced on him to restrain him (and he only grabbed her hair after she started to restrain him). I know some schools do restrain when it's far from a last resort, yet I was still shocked by how soon they did it in this situation.

@CaptainCallisto

I'm a TA in a mainstream school, currently working 1:1 with a child with SEN. He's in Y2. We've been fighting for a specialist provision place for him (along with his parents) since Christmas of his reception year. The council aren't having a bar of it.

We have a robust plan in place for helping him to cope, have two safe zones for him (a large tent in the cloakroom where it's quiet and a fenced off, secure area of the school garden) where we take him to de-escalate, but sometimes he goes with absolutely no warning signs. In these cases we have no option but to restrain him while we (safely and as gently as possible) remove him to his secure area. This is both for his own safety and for that of everyone around him.

I currently have a black eye and a large bruised/swollen area on my arm because he didn't like the frog picture in his book when we turned the page. He threw a chair at me last week. He broke a member of staff's wrist last year. I have a scar on my leg because he stabbed me with a pencil hard enough to get through my trousers and deeply penetrate the skin.

I have to carry a walkie-talkie at all times so that I can call for help. Everything we do is documented, the council are well aware of these issues, and yet they think he doesn't need specialist provision and can manage in mainstream. It's really not as simple as "they're not coping, put them in a special school".

He's six years old, and I genuinely don't know how we'll manage by the time he gets to Y6. He's the most wonderful, bright, articulate little boy, but a mainstream environment is just too much for him, and it breaks my heart that we're all stuck in the situation.

This is scarily familiar for me, and unfortunately I'm sure other school staff recognise the struggles you mention.

OP, it really isn't as simple as saying this isn't working, and then magically moving a child to another setting, school or other provision.

@Thatsplentyjack

I've never understood the idea that if someone is panicking then restraining them I.e holding them down is the right course of action. If someone was to restrain me I would panic even more.

two answers to that one. The first is protection....of others both children and adults and of the restrainee themselves. The restrained child (or adult) has lost control. Some will attack themselves as well as others. The other is that it can be therapeutic for the restrainee to be controlled. It can be frightening for them to lose control.

@JanetandJohn500

I am trainer in physical handling for schools. It has to be proportionate, reasonable and necessary. The hold was not only unnecessary in this instance, it was dangerous because it put him at risk of positional asphyxia (he was bent forwards throughout the hold). I was disappointed they held it up as an example of effective practice and even more cross when the dep head commented about it being good to see someone else do it correctly 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤯🤯

Is that not illegal? I did yearly control and restraint training when i was a mental health nurse, this was with adults, but we were always taught to get people on their backs ASAP, and never restrict their airways

The reality is this a television producer. We are seeing edited snapshots, through the lens of a producer and director trying to make it entertaining tv viewing.

Its not going to be a complete picture of how this school are managing. These teachers may know a particular child's warning signs like the back of their hand and acted fast to prevent something much worse. They are there to protect the child and the people around them - it's too late restraining a child after they have already hurt someone.

"Restraint is only used as a last resort and only by trained staff. It's not a case of "Bobby hit Mrs Jones so let's restrain him to show him who's boss."

I felt the incident in the programme last night was manipulated precisely to show who's boss !

The boy was having an outburst in the empty playground, made contact with the staff member and then ran into and knocked over a tub of tennis balls. He was grabbed and strongly restrained/pressed to the floor by an adult, calling for assistance. Must have been very frightening for the boy.

It just felt like too strong a reaction/intervention for what had just happened. Almost as if the programme-makers wanted to film a physical restraint episode and seized on this as an opportunity while the behaviour specialist was there.

I've enjoyed the series and found the strategies logical to that point, but this and the unpleasantness and lack of understanding of the other teacher towards Olivia, made for very uncomfortable viewing.

I have had to restrain a child when teaching. held by the wrist as they were hell bent on harming another child.

I have had to restrain my child as they had the tendancy to sprint straight across busy roads when in meltdown. holding a child is better than letting child die under a bus.

You don't do it when they are in a space where they are not going to escape or where they are not going to hurt themselves or others, nor in a way that is excessive.

@Babdoc

The PPs who are so anti restraint don’t seem to be offering any practical alternatives, just theoretical suggestions of “more appropriate settings”. I used to be the clinical lead for special needs anaesthesia in my hospital. We always endeavoured to provide a reassuring environment adapted for each of our patients, (using their favourite songs, toys, a premed if they were willing to swallow it) and restraint was a last resort, but I have once been punched in the face and once kicked across the anaesthetic room by large male adult patients. Another of our patients broke a nurse’s jaw and kicked out the window of an ambulance. In such circumstances, we as a team restrain the patient safely and as non threateningly as possible, holding them and soothing them while inducing anaesthesia. Once that even had to be done on the theatre floor and the obese patient then hoisted onto the table. Safe restraint is taught to hospital staff in a training module - I expect SEN schools do the same. And thank goodness for that - because sometimes there really is no alternative.

No one here can offer a practical alternative because we don't know what each individual persons needs are. If someone gets to the point of needing restraint, their needs aren't being met in some way, that's what triggers the behaviour that may require restraint. It needs professional evaluation.

In the case of a child they need assessing by an ed psych, speech and language, occupational therapist etc to ascertain what their needs are, what their triggers are and what provision/support needs to be in place so they don't become stressed and dysregulated in the first place.

If needs are being met, restraint would rarely, if ever, be necessary.

@Babdoc

The PPs who are so anti restraint don’t seem to be offering any practical alternatives, just theoretical suggestions of “more appropriate settings”. I used to be the clinical lead for special needs anaesthesia in my hospital. We always endeavoured to provide a reassuring environment adapted for each of our patients, (using their favourite songs, toys, a premed if they were willing to swallow it) and restraint was a last resort, but I have once been punched in the face and once kicked across the anaesthetic room by large male adult patients. Another of our patients broke a nurse’s jaw and kicked out the window of an ambulance. In such circumstances, we as a team restrain the patient safely and as non threateningly as possible, holding them and soothing them while inducing anaesthesia. Once that even had to be done on the theatre floor and the obese patient then hoisted onto the table. Safe restraint is taught to hospital staff in a training module - I expect SEN schools do the same. And thank goodness for that - because sometimes there really is no alternative.

I know of an NT adult who was seriously needle phobic. They needed a procedure done under GA. They and the team lead discussed this well before the event and the person knew that they might need to be restrained to enable the procedure to be done. There was also recently the case of a very agoraphobic mum to be who might have needed to be forcibly removed from her flat for the medical safety of herself and her much wanted baby. The case went to court and the judge issued the appropriate order for this to be done. It made the papers when it went to court but i don't know what the outcome was. I do know that she had had to stop some of her usual medication regime because of the baby so options were limited.

As a HT of a primary and special needs provision, I have to say I watched this restraint and felt it wasn't in-keeping with the DFE guidelines.

Last year I taught a five year old who was physically and verbally aggressive towards adults and children. She had to be restrained most days..... why? Biting adults and children, kicking, spitting, using completely vile language, hitting, scribbling on other children's work, tearing up other children's work.... I could go on. This happened daily. It took months for us to have enough evidence that anyone would take notice and has eventually been moved to a specialist setting. In the situations we were in with 29 other five year olds being scared and some not wanting to come to school I can't see any other option. All the adults hated it but she had to be restrained whilst the rest of the class were removed or we moved her to a safe area. After each episode it makes you feel awful, wobbly etc as the adrenaline works through BUT when other children's safety is at risk there's nothing else. All the talking etc made things worse. OP I wish you could spend some time with these children and see how hard it is to work with them and the effects of their behaviour on everyone. I wonder how you would feel if this child was in your child's class and came home with bite or scratch marks, using vile language and not wanting to go to school the next day?

@DeepaBeesKit

The reality is this a television producer. We are seeing edited snapshots, through the lens of a producer and director trying to make it entertaining tv viewing.

Its not going to be a complete picture of how this school are managing. These teachers may know a particular child's warning signs like the back of their hand and acted fast to prevent something much worse. They are there to protect the child and the people around them - it's too late restraining a child after they have already hurt someone.

yup this absolutely, BBC or not!

Hmmmm and where is all the money coming from to pay for this 'extra support'?
You do realise that the public have voted, and it is a resounding NO! To distinguish tax to cover this.
The general public simply do not want to pay for this extra support.
You will hear comments such as "Back in my day, there were no TAs."
" When I was at school we had the cane, and it was all the teacher needed to keep control. "
"Parents should reach their children respect."
Its a resounding NO to increase public spending on things like this.

but a mainstream environment is just too much for him, and it breaks my heart that we're all stuck in the situation

That is a big part of the issue. The environment needs to arch up to the needs of the child and a mainstream school environment is far too much for some people with AN.

I worked in education for years and I would never go back to working in state schools.

I think that it shouldn't happen but without it more children will be excluded or need specialist places. We have children in school who were regularly restrained in their previous primary school. I will not restrain unless it was in self defense or to protect another child and it would only happen once as I would then refuse to manage incidents. I think this is quite a hidden issue as many schools are doing this as an alternative to exclusion.

Many children are unfortunately not in educational settings appropriate to their needs. There was a big drive years ago - before I entered the workforce - to do away with many specialist provisions, because it was felt that inclusion was important in education (and society as a whole).

Whilst that was a good move for some children, many are now left in mainstream settings that can't meet their needs.

I haven't seen the programme, but the rules for restraining are generally that it should be done:

• By people who are specially trained
• Only if necessary to prevent harm to the child in question, or others
• with the minimum necessary force and for the minimum time possible.

Unfortunately many schools are forced to exclude, because that is the only way that the LA can be forced to move the child to a more appropriate (read more expensive) setting. I have worked on both sides of that, so also understand the financial strains LAs are under.

I have taken part in many restraints unfortunately, and it is a grim feeling every time you lay a hand on a child. But it is not (when done appropriately), violence. Thankfully most professionals are using their power appropriately.

People keep voting for a party that likes to slash spending on education, health and social care. Until this stops and it is all properly funded, many children will not get the education they are entitled to.

*some people might blame the naughty child (or their parents), I’m not one of those
I don't think I've seen anyone else on the thread refer to 'naughty' child?

@godmum56 did you watch it? We saw the whole incident. It did not require restraint, not by a long stretch. And the person restraining was someone who has been popping into school to give advice. They were not a teacher and certainly wouldn't know the child well on the limited contact they'd had.

@MakingM2 I’d absolutely back up your idea that mainstream probably isn’t the best place for these children but that doesn’t fit the current inclusion agenda which for the government handily limits the availability of (very expensive to run) specialist provision

I've watched the programme.

I have a wealth of experience in this area and agree with quite a lot of her practice and find some of it quite cold.

With regards restraint it is necessary and actually you have a duty of care to safeguard a child.

The same way if your child was doing something very dangerous you'd restrain them.

I don't have an issue with the restraint being used but I do have a issue with how she was restraining. He was bent too far forward which increases risk and we wouldn't usually hold the legs as well in the situation unless the child could kick them above their own head and injure the person doing the restraint. You'd move out if the way so you don't get booted!

Use of restraint is always a very emotive topic. All the companies that provide training to schools are continuously reviewing holds and adapting them. It's a very carefully considered practice when it is used. There are laws governing its use and very specific paperwork that must be completed and filed and held for many years.

i have an autistic child and he did have to be restrained a couple of times during violent meltdowns.

The staff are fully trained to handle it, however, it should only be used as a last resort when all other methods have failed.

The school my son went to helped to teach him regulation, recognising his triggers, allowing him to remove himself from a situation if he was getting upset, a sensory/calm room he could sit in.

Retraint isn't an ongoing behaviour management thing, and it shouldn't be used as such in any educational environment.

@godmum56

OP, what is your point? I really don't mean this rudely but you seem to have put several things into a mix here.

1. Restraint is violence to children. Violence to children is always wrong.
2. Restraint should never happen in mainstream schools
3. Children who need (might need) restraint as part of their educational care should never be in manistream schools.

I am actually a bit dubious about the implication that because its the BBC, there has been no massaging of the facts.

From the little that I know about restraint, no a weighted blanket would not be the same. It won't be able to restrain the child as a human could and if the child fights against the blanket then it could be dangerous for the child and also make their reaction worse.
I get that it is very distressing to watch (worse to be involved in) but such things IMOfall into the category of least bad option in the circumstances. As many people have said on here, it is operated under tight controls, training and documentation. I agree that where that is not the case then it should not be used unless in very extreme circumstances.

That’s not rude. I’m not entirely sure what I think about it - that’s why I’ve asked other people.

For myself, I’ve reached the conclusions that:

All children should get the educational provision they need.

Restraint shouldn’t be used to manage behaviour in mainstream schools. If a child needs to be restrained for their own safety or the safety of others then mainstream education with its limited resources and large classes really isn’t a place that can meet their needs. Schools have to get through a lot of mandated curriculum and state schools need to be calm, efficient places if they are to have any hope of delivering a good education. For the children it fits, most children, it works. What people are describing on this thread doesn’t sound calm at all.

School children should be able to go to school and learn without wondering if a child with unmet needs will need to be restrained for his/her and their own safety. I mean seriously, would you let your child go to someone’s house where one of residents occasionally became dangerous? Of course you wouldn’t. This is potentially traumatic for the other children, particularly at 5 or 6 years old.

Taking children with additional needs from mainstream classrooms shouldn’t be seen as a punishment - and presumably with the provision that meets their needs the need for restraint should be vastly reduced anyway which is better for everyone.

It seems we have a lack of provision that meets the full range of children’s needs and, as someone else said, we should concentrate on that instead of coming up with justifications for why restraint is an acceptable way of keeping children in class.

Thanks for all the responses. I’m going to avoid watching any more of those for a while!