AIBU to think holding children down for “educational” purposes is bad?

[MakingM2]

I watched “Don’t exclude me” last night and there were some interesting ideas but I’ll cut to the chase.

In one scene, if you haven’t seen it, the teacher is physically restraining a very young boy who clearly has additional needs. They are basically on the floor in the playground. She is holding him down. He is pulling her hair. It’s all fairly horrific. She claims this is “trauma informed practice”.

The deputy head said - it feels wrong when you do it and it feels wrong when someone else does it.

…and my thought is “Sir, that’s because it is wrong”. You are teaching this tiny child that a more powerful person can physically force them to submit to their will - and that this is something that is ok. You may as well get a cane out.

Having been a governor in two primaries and friends with teachers and teacher trainers, I personally can’t imagine many teachers would want to undertake this kind of “behaviour management” even if the children do become more compliant afterwards.

And it occurred to me, given we think that observing violence is bad for children, should we really be doing this type of thing?

So am I being unreasonable to think violence (of any kind, with any justification) has no place in an educational environment?

YABU - nah, this is fine, stop being so precious
YANBU - education should be violence free

@callingon

What channel is this on? It does sound a bit like the situation might not have called for a hold (in my limited experience). Re the ‘violence’ of a restraint - I can see where you’re coming from but I have been told by colleagues who have been in specialist settings for a long time that sometimes young people get into holds because they genuinely crave physical contact and this is one of the only ways they get it. So much so that some of the pupils can be offered a hug to avoid getting into a hold 🤷🏻‍♀️ obviously that’s something that would need unpicking in itself but it does show that ‘being held’ appropriately can actually have a range of meanings.

It was BBC2 so not the usually Benefit Street type nonsense.

True. Wouldn’t a weighted blanket have achieved pretty much the same effect? It would surely have been much gentler and less, well, violent.

That show really doesn't sit right with me. The restraining was questionable and the conduct of that other teacher with Olivia was almost triggering - she utterly reviled Olivia.

I didn't like it either but I assumed it was because he was being physically violent and they were trying to stop him from running away and potentially hurting others.

It was the behavioural woman that did it, not a teacher, which showed to me that it must have been warranted as she will have lots of experience of when that is appropriate. That's what I hope anyway. The show was quite upsetting. Jack reminds me of my own son and the £10 note thing was a much worse incident imho.

I've never understood the idea that if someone is panicking then restraining them I.e holding them down is the right course of action. If someone was to restrain me I would panic even more.

A weighted blanket becomes a weapon in the hands of a child. If they are made properly they should be 10% of a child's weight. Ds's current blanket is 3kg. That's heavier than a 2l bottle of coke being lobbed at you.

YABU I work I a secondary SEND school setting which has a lot of behavioural issues and most days someone has to be restrained so they don’t harm themselves or someone else.
The people who do the restraining have been fully trained and use as little force as they have to.
With a lot of the needs they need to be restrained in a way that they are held closely, often with a weighted blanket as it’s the the feeling of closeness that calms them down.

When I worked in a mainstream school I only witnessed restraining a couple of times and that was because again they were going to harm themselves or someone else.
I remember one boy smashing his head against a wall as hard as he can. I didn’t have any time to wait for someone trained so I restrained him by holding onto him as best I could (he was 6’3” and about 16stone) which stopped him doing major harm to himself and because I was restraining him like a hug he just broke down in tears.

I didn’t see the programme but I definitely will.

Restraint is sometimes necessary to prevent children (or adults) with additional needs from hurting others. It depends why the child was being restrained I suppose. is it? I would say it was rarely necessary to restrain anyone. What would you do if it wasn’t an option? Do that, accept that, what is described doesn’t sound good for anyone.

I've never understood the idea that if someone is panicking then restraining them I.e holding them down is the right course of action. If someone was to restrain me I would panic even more.

I’m the same and there are definitely people who need space rather than someone being close to them.
If it’s someone you don’t know it’s best to always give them space and let them calm down on their own but if they’re going to hurt themselves or someone else then you often have no choice but to physically stop them.

@Thatsplentyjack

I've never understood the idea that if someone is panicking then restraining them I.e holding them down is the right course of action. If someone was to restrain me I would panic even more.

I agree, but it's about risk. Staff have a duty to protect the child and the other children. If your child was attacked and you were told this very angry child was left to run around, would you be ok with that?

In my heart I don't like restraint, but I understand why it happens.

These children need theraputic settings, not mainstream, not a send pru.

This programme (especially episode 1) was hugely triggering for me. Our poor children are being forced to fit the mould, or else. It's bullshit being cruel to be kind behaviours from the teachers.

This is a teacher/school focused programme, not children focused at all.

I haven't seen it, but was it to stop others being harmed?
If so, what is the alternative? Allow them to attack teachers and children whilst playing soothing music and waiting for them to calm dowm?

What about the trauma to the victims if this is what they allowed to happen? School should be a safe place, sometimes restraint does need to be and should be used. Obviously whilst addressing you cannot attack people so it hopefully would not need to be used long-term.

I know someone who is a 1:1 TA in a primary school with a year 2 little boy. Every day she is hit, kicked and bitten until blood is drawn. The child was permanently excluded and the exclusion was overturned, had a place in a PRU and was then returned to the same mainstream primary, has an EHCP but the local authority insists there are no places available in Specialist provision. The school she works in have said they are unable to manage the boys education and cannot meet need, they have basically been told. "Tough" He throws tables and chairs, hits staff and children alike, swears and screams and is completely uncontrollable. The school have paid for specialist intervention, psychology input, extra staff in place and whatever they could but nothing has had any impact. The staff are on the point of walking out. Sometimes restraint is the ONLY option to keep the child, the other children and the staff safe.

What would you do if it wasn’t an option? Do that, accept that, what is described doesn’t sound good for anyone.

Have the shit beaten out of you or have the child/person seriously harm themselves? Would that be preferable?

Of course it should be avoided when possible and space given when possible but it isn't always an option . Do people honestly think that teachers/TAs/support workers, not to mention other children should just accept being punched/kicked/scratched etc?

Yea... teachers and parents of children with SEN would agree with you. Unfortunately government/council's funding doesn't.

Quote fail.

OP, what is your point? I really don't mean this rudely but you seem to have put several things into a mix here.

1. Restraint is violence to children. Violence to children is always wrong.
2. Restraint should never happen in mainstream schools
3. Children who need (might need) restraint as part of their educational care should never be in manistream schools.

I am actually a bit dubious about the implication that because its the BBC, there has been no massaging of the facts.

From the little that I know about restraint, no a weighted blanket would not be the same. It won't be able to restrain the child as a human could and if the child fights against the blanket then it could be dangerous for the child and also make their reaction worse.
I get that it is very distressing to watch (worse to be involved in) but such things IMOfall into the category of least bad option in the circumstances. As many people have said on here, it is operated under tight controls, training and documentation. I agree that where that is not the case then it should not be used unless in very extreme circumstances.

I 100% agree with you OP. I thought the exact same as you. My personal opinion is that in that situation there was a whole lot of stress around for the young child. The situation required deescalation not forcing through an agenda that the child was clearly not remotely emotionally ready for. The child seems to have a form of PDA. The child communicated very clearly his discomfort around what was being proposed and yet the lesson was still being forced on him. I have a child with ASD and meltdowns always seem to arise through emotional overload/overwhelm it is really about trying not to get to that stage because no child ever learns well in fight/flight stage and at meltdown absolutely nothing is learned. There were plenty of warning signs that the child was heading towards meltdown where restraint was going to be necessary.

I thought the child only pulled the teachers hair AFTER she held him against his will?

I am trainer in physical handling for schools. It has to be proportionate, reasonable and necessary. The hold was not only unnecessary in this instance, it was dangerous because it put him at risk of positional asphyxia (he was bent forwards throughout the hold).
I was disappointed they held it up as an example of effective practice and even more cross when the dep head commented about it being good to see someone else do it correctly 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤯🤯

is it? I would say it was rarely necessary to restrain anyone. What would you do if it wasn’t an option?

Would you be happy if your child needed to regularly go to the hospital as they’d been attacked by another student and the staff didn’t want to physically stop them?

I agree with OP that violence shouldn’t be acceptable in schools, which is exactly why restraining a violent or self harming child is needed.

I havent seen the programme, but im guessing they were using Team Teach, my son has severe autism and learning disabilities and goes to a special school, i have had to sign a, plan to say he can be restrained if necessary, of course in an ideal world i wouldnt want this but if it keeps him and others safe, then i accept it, incidentally my son is a biter and a scratcher, last year there was a child in his class who had similar needs to him, and went for him and bit him underneath his eye, if his teachers hadent restrained the other child, than my child could have lost his eye

If it's a situation where safely restraining a child is the only way to stop them hurting themselves or others, what would you do instead?

Allow them to hurt another child? How would you feel as the parent of the other child? If we follow children's "will" all the time a LOT of people will get hurt and that's not ok.

I'm a TA in a mainstream school, currently working 1:1 with a child with SEN. He's in Y2. We've been fighting for a specialist provision place for him (along with his parents) since Christmas of his reception year. The council aren't having a bar of it.

We have a robust plan in place for helping him to cope, have two safe zones for him (a large tent in the cloakroom where it's quiet and a fenced off, secure area of the school garden) where we take him to de-escalate, but sometimes he goes with absolutely no warning signs. In these cases we have no option but to restrain him while we (safely and as gently as possible) remove him to his secure area. This is both for his own safety and for that of everyone around him.

I currently have a black eye and a large bruised/swollen area on my arm because he didn't like the frog picture in his book when we turned the page. He threw a chair at me last week. He broke a member of staff's wrist last year. I have a scar on my leg because he stabbed me with a pencil hard enough to get through my trousers and deeply penetrate the skin.

I have to carry a walkie-talkie at all times so that I can call for help. Everything we do is documented, the council are well aware of these issues, and yet they think he doesn't need specialist provision and can manage in mainstream. It's really not as simple as "they're not coping, put them in a special school".

He's six years old, and I genuinely don't know how we'll manage by the time he gets to Y6. He's the most wonderful, bright, articulate little boy, but a mainstream environment is just too much for him, and it breaks my heart that we're all stuck in the situation.

The PPs who are so anti restraint don’t seem to be offering any practical alternatives, just theoretical suggestions of “more appropriate settings”.
I used to be the clinical lead for special needs anaesthesia in my hospital. We always endeavoured to provide a reassuring environment adapted for each of our patients, (using their favourite songs, toys, a premed if they were willing to swallow it) and restraint was a last resort, but I have once been punched in the face and once kicked across the anaesthetic room by large male adult patients.
Another of our patients broke a nurse’s jaw and kicked out the window of an ambulance.
In such circumstances, we as a team restrain the patient safely and as non threateningly as possible, holding them and soothing them while inducing anaesthesia.
Once that even had to be done on the theatre floor and the obese patient then hoisted onto the table.
Safe restraint is taught to hospital staff in a training module - I expect SEN schools do the same. And thank goodness for that - because sometimes there really is no alternative.