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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask how you can justify using a woodburner in a city or town

584 replies

MojoMoon · 09/10/2021 09:39

www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/eco-wood-stoves-emit-pollution-hgv-ecodesign?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

New wood burning stoves billed as more environmentally friendly still emit 750 times more tiny particle pollution than a modern HGV truck, a report has shown.

Only stoves that meet the ecodesign standard can be legally sold from the start of 2022 in the UK and EU, but experts said the regulation was shockingly weak.

The report used data on the emissions produced by stoves in perfect laboratory conditions and the pollution could be even higher in everyday use, the researchers said, with older stoves being much worse.

Tiny particle pollution – called PM2.5 – is especially harmful to health as it can pass through the lungs into the bloodstream and then be carried around the body and lodge in organs. At least 40 ,000 early deaths a year are attributed to wood burning in Europe.

Wood burners also triple the level of harmful pollution inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, said the scientist behind a study published in December. The researchers advised that the stoves should not be used around elderly people or children.

The government may have banned the burning of wet wood but has no plans to ban the sale of woodburners, despite the fact that the 8pc of homes that use them are almost entirely in cities and can use power or gas for heating. And are almost entirely fairly wealthy households.

(Those of you who live a "very rural" location, to use a common Mumsnet phrase and are entirely off grid may justifiably need one. But the question was cities and towns).

It worries me so few people know how dangerous PM2.5 emissions are, particularly for pregnant women and children.

YANBU: correct, woodburners should be banned in homes in cities and towns asap

YABU: no, they look pretty and who cares about science and health

OP posts:
CovidCorvid · 09/10/2021 14:48

Good quality heat pumps work perfectly. I've lived in two houses with them, including the one I'm currently in. They're not cheap to purchase but 'unknown unreliability' is ridiculous.

I might be wrong but I read they only work perfectly if you live in a well insulated house? So possibly not in my 150yo house with no cavity wall?

JassyRadlett · 09/10/2021 14:49

@CovidCorvid

I have one. I am rural ish but we have gas so yes don’t need it. I didn’t know about the pollution (nobody talked about it ten years ago) when we fitted it. I mean obviously I knew that burning wood would cause some particles, etc but nobody spoke about it like they do now back then. Not sure I’d have had it fitted if I knew.

Saying that I will still use it….cost me 5k so I’m not having it as decoration. We’ve had two extended periods of time when I’ve been so glad we’ve had it. Once our boiler broke and it was a week to fix, in winter so no central heating…was a life saver. Another time the gas pipe to our village broke and nobody had any gas for two weeks. Again was very glad we had it.

Also with rising fuel bills I prefer to put the fire on….working my way through the pile of logs knowing how much I have left. Rather than putting the heating on and worrying how much it’s going to cost.

Plus how clean is the gas/electricity we get? There’s an environmental cost to everything. 🤷‍♀️

Well, mostly free of coal now which is great. Gas to be phased out by 2035, which suggests large expansion of non-intermittent power (batteries, nuclear, tidal, hydro) alongside wind and solar. Suspect a mix will come into play and tidal and battery storage will become a lot cheaper, and grid balancing will get a lot smarter to reduce relative demand (as overall demand increases due to electrification of heat.)
YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators · 09/10/2021 14:49

I've not RTFT, but why is it that people are SO resistant to the idea that something they enjoy might be causing harm?
Honestly. I don't get it. I learn about new things all the time, things I've previously enjoyed but are now found to be detrimental to health or harmful to the environment. I feel disappointed for a while and then work out how to not do the thing or do much less of the thing that is harmful. Including decommissioning my supposedly clean burning wood burning stove.
What I don't do is minimise or discredit good science or engage in endless whataboutery.

julieca · 09/10/2021 14:49

@LowlandLucky no one is asking you to justify it. But the advice is not to use a wood burner stove around children. It emits tony particles that gets into the bloodstream and over time can cause damage. It is way more damaging to children's health than smoking in a room with your children.

julieca · 09/10/2021 14:51

[quote dailily]@julieca isn't gas mains on its way out too?![/quote]
Eventually. But banning wood burning stoves for people who have other ways to heat their house, is such an easy way to reduce pollution.

EarlGreywithLemon · 09/10/2021 14:51

I love the smell, I love what it looks like and would love to have one. In fact we could have one fitted, but won’t for exactly this reason.

PissedOffNeighbour22 · 09/10/2021 14:52

I absolutely hate them. We're semi rural and since we've moved in, I'm constantly coughing and the house is full of smoke from neighbours' wood burners.
There were 2 in our house and we ripped them both out (they were condemned anyway). There's also one in the outbuilding that we don't use.

We're on LPG so costs a lot to heat the house, but I couldn't justify adding to the smoke surrounding our house by putting a fire back in. We also took out the gas fire as can't afford the LPG to run it.
All our neighbours are loaded so it's clearly not a financial issue why they aren't removing their bloody awful wood burners.

CovidCorvid · 09/10/2021 14:54

@JassyRadlett that sounds great and when it’s all up and running and the cost of energy has fallen I’ll revisit my house heating options. In the mean time it’s significantly cheaper to put a couple of logs on the log burner than turn the central heating on.

userabc · 09/10/2021 14:56

So no agenda in OP at all then Hmm

Would also be interested to know about the OP's

  • use of car (even electric cars use masses of fossil fuels in steel manufacture, smelting etc)
  • use of air travel
  • indirect use of fossil fuels in purchase of any goods that require transportation in e.g. a ship, plane, HGV

I am willing to bet OP is a massive hypocrite with a niggle on single issue that they are blemish-free on.

Lalliella · 09/10/2021 14:56

@C8H10N4O2

YANBU: correct, woodburners should be banned in homes in cities and towns asap

YABU: no, they look pretty and who cares about science and health

I know AIBU is often bonkers but this takes the biscuit for one of the silliest false "choices" in a long time.

Agreed. I voted YABU for that reason.
billysboy · 09/10/2021 14:57

Insulation to your home is more important than anything else I think

julieca · 09/10/2021 14:59

Homes can be over insulated. My home is well insulated. The previous owners had to install ventilation grilles as the insulation was causing issues in the house.

PrtScn · 09/10/2021 15:00

We have a multi fuel stove as do all our immediate neighbours (or coal fires). Still have the coal man. I’ve not used mine for a few years as I put in electric heaters (we don’t have mains gas in our village, there’s a lot of oil heating around these parts instead).
I get annoyed over winter as my car and white pvc window frames are basically always covered in coal dust

julieca · 09/10/2021 15:00

[quote CovidCorvid]@JassyRadlett that sounds great and when it’s all up and running and the cost of energy has fallen I’ll revisit my house heating options. In the mean time it’s significantly cheaper to put a couple of logs on the log burner than turn the central heating on.[/quote]
Okay your choice to keep damaging your children's health.

ejhhhhh · 09/10/2021 15:02

Can people please stop conflating CO2 emissions with particulate pollution! It has been explained multiple times that they are not the same and not the point of the thread! I could just as easily say, well I'll stop burning wood when you start giving to charity. "You're not whiter than white in 💯 of your life so you're a hypocrite and why should I even try?" We're all hypocrites. Doesn't mean we should cease to care and try our best not to be. But it seems like some people just don't even care one jot what effect their behaviour has on others and I don't get that at all.

MakingTheBestOfIt · 09/10/2021 15:03

@Loveshelly

Who has power cuts in the U.K. I genuinely didn’t think that was a thing. Are you all extremely rural. I grew up rurally but we didn’t have power cuts?! Excuse my ignorance
I’m genuinely surprised by people who don’t have them!

We used to lose power for days at a time pretty much every winter as a child. 3 days was our record.

We now live a bit off the beaten track, but only a 2 hour 15 min drive from London and 45 mins from our nearest city, so not totally in the middle of nowhere. Looking back at my UK Power text updates we’ve had 5 cuts so far in 2021 that have been long enough that I've bothered to register for text updates. The last one was 22 Sep, was reported 11:19 and resolved 16:15. The worst this year was 18:03 to 00:43 in February .

I think we just have an old and unreliable supply and, with not too many other houses around us, probably well down their list of supplies to be upgraded.

UK Power Networks put all their big outages on their website if you’re curious.

MakingTheBestOfIt · 09/10/2021 15:04

I didn’t post that as an excuse for wood burners, btw, just interested that so many people have such reliable energy supplies that they can’t imagine a power cut. Oh how the other half live WinkGrin

montysma1 · 09/10/2021 15:04

We collect out own fallen wood. We heat our home free. Otherwise we would have to be cold.

CovidCorvid · 09/10/2021 15:07

Okay your choice to keep damaging your children's health

You do know some people live in fuel poverty and can’t afford to put the central heating on don’t you?

FourTeaFallOut · 09/10/2021 15:07

We've never had a power cut. I have torches and batteries at the ready in case it ever happens - and it just never has.

Thoseshoulderslookace · 09/10/2021 15:07

I had no idea about this.

I live abroad in a hot country, houses with tiled floors and thick walls, great in summer…but it’s freezing in winter as no central heating.
We have a small electric heater in our bedroom to heat us all and our electric bills are a fortune in winter,
We had an open fireplace, which I loved, but Dp was worried about smoke etc for Dd, so put a wood burner in last year.
Had no idea they were dangerous to kids-what else can we do with no central heating? To put small heater’s everywhere would barely do anything and would cripple us, electricity bills already very high where we are

JassyRadlett · 09/10/2021 15:08

[quote CovidCorvid]@JassyRadlett that sounds great and when it’s all up and running and the cost of energy has fallen I’ll revisit my house heating options. In the mean time it’s significantly cheaper to put a couple of logs on the log burner than turn the central heating on.[/quote]
I’d expect to see some pretty serious subsidies especially for those on low incomes in the heat strategy coming in the next few weeks.

Thoseshoulderslookace · 09/10/2021 15:08

We also use the wood from our trees (chopped right back in summer)

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 09/10/2021 15:09

Being too poor to pay for gas and electricity.

Woodburner1234567 · 09/10/2021 15:11

@Hardbackwriter

Funny how I feel the need to NC in order to say that I have far bigger things to worry about than woodburners.

Woodburners are contributing to the premature deaths of many people each year, including children. What do you have to worry about that's more important than the deaths of children?

What a peculiar questions.

Quite a lot of people have things to worry about them which directly affect them far more than some spurious statistics about woodburners.
As you genuinely seem not to understand this, I'll start with:

Death of one's own child by accident/illness
Death of partner/other family member
One's own terminal illness which would mean one's children growing up without a mother
Homelessness
Unemployment

I can't believe I just had to spell that out.

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