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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask how you can justify using a woodburner in a city or town

584 replies

MojoMoon · 09/10/2021 09:39

www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/eco-wood-stoves-emit-pollution-hgv-ecodesign?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

New wood burning stoves billed as more environmentally friendly still emit 750 times more tiny particle pollution than a modern HGV truck, a report has shown.

Only stoves that meet the ecodesign standard can be legally sold from the start of 2022 in the UK and EU, but experts said the regulation was shockingly weak.

The report used data on the emissions produced by stoves in perfect laboratory conditions and the pollution could be even higher in everyday use, the researchers said, with older stoves being much worse.

Tiny particle pollution – called PM2.5 – is especially harmful to health as it can pass through the lungs into the bloodstream and then be carried around the body and lodge in organs. At least 40 ,000 early deaths a year are attributed to wood burning in Europe.

Wood burners also triple the level of harmful pollution inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, said the scientist behind a study published in December. The researchers advised that the stoves should not be used around elderly people or children.

The government may have banned the burning of wet wood but has no plans to ban the sale of woodburners, despite the fact that the 8pc of homes that use them are almost entirely in cities and can use power or gas for heating. And are almost entirely fairly wealthy households.

(Those of you who live a "very rural" location, to use a common Mumsnet phrase and are entirely off grid may justifiably need one. But the question was cities and towns).

It worries me so few people know how dangerous PM2.5 emissions are, particularly for pregnant women and children.

YANBU: correct, woodburners should be banned in homes in cities and towns asap

YABU: no, they look pretty and who cares about science and health

OP posts:
JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 09/10/2021 14:22

@Elphame yeh I think lots of people still use candles and harsh chemical products that are really not nice for our bodies.
Candles are carcinogenic arent they?
Although, what isn't I suppose.

I went to buy a new vacuum cleaner the other day and the guy in the appliance shop was saying all tumble dryers with heating elements will be banned in 5 years time. He said they will all be heat pumps going forward

LowlandLucky · 09/10/2021 14:22

As our car does one journey a week to town and we grow/catch and hunt most of our foods i feel no need whatsoever to justify the use of our wood burner or our coal fire.

UsedUpUsername · 09/10/2021 14:24

@LowlandLucky

As our car does one journey a week to town and we grow/catch and hunt most of our foods i feel no need whatsoever to justify the use of our wood burner or our coal fire.
It’s not about carbon emissions, it’s about the air quality in your home and your immediate surroundings.

Why can’t people understand this?

Loveshelly · 09/10/2021 14:25

608 children died in car accidents and 91,000 were injured.
Should we ban cars.
Won’t someone think of the children!

HermioneAndRoger · 09/10/2021 14:25

@LowlandLucky

As our car does one journey a week to town and we grow/catch and hunt most of our foods i feel no need whatsoever to justify the use of our wood burner or our coal fire.
If you live rurally the OP isn’t asking you to. She’s specifically talking about urban areas.
NiceTwin · 09/10/2021 14:26

I live off grid, we have a wood burner but we rarely use the room it is in. We use the room with the open fire.
We live in a smokeless zone and the goal merchant won't sell us house coal, even though they do stock it.

Mydogmylife · 09/10/2021 14:26

@Sunshineshow

They are a bit naff now aren’t they? Right next to the sign saying ‘live love home’ and the twigs in the pot.
Patronising much?
KeflavikAirport · 09/10/2021 14:27

It's been a while sonce i worked in the sector but iirc the carbon outcome of biomass is pretty good using coppiced wood to create carbon sinks and waste wood that would otherwise be incinerated. Particulates are another issue.

GeorgiaMcGraw · 09/10/2021 14:27

I don't trust any thinking that says we should ban or simply avoid having a source of heat and light that isn't dependent on big energy companies and electric infrastructure. Too many people assume their neat little city lives and home comforts will last forever. Don't be too reliant on the state or giant corporations to look after your basic needs. People should always be able to find a reasonably simple and cheap way to heat their home and cook their food if needed, open fires and stoves provide that.

Cakeofdoom · 09/10/2021 14:28

@Hardbackwriter

Funny how I feel the need to NC in order to say that I have far bigger things to worry about than woodburners.

Woodburners are contributing to the premature deaths of many people each year, including children. What do you have to worry about that's more important than the deaths of children?

Stats please ?
EvilPea · 09/10/2021 14:29

[quote JasonMomoasgirlfriend]@Elphame yeh I think lots of people still use candles and harsh chemical products that are really not nice for our bodies.
Candles are carcinogenic arent they?
Although, what isn't I suppose.

I went to buy a new vacuum cleaner the other day and the guy in the appliance shop was saying all tumble dryers with heating elements will be banned in 5 years time. He said they will all be heat pumps going forward[/quote]
Hopefully heat pump prices come down in that time or that will be another thing only for the wealthy

Hardbackwriter · 09/10/2021 14:30

@Loveshelly

608 children died in car accidents and 91,000 were injured. Should we ban cars. Won’t someone think of the children!
By your logic - there's no point doing anything if you're not going to eradicate all causes of death entirely - people might as well go around stabbing children until we ban cars because hey, some kids will die anyway. But that's really very stupid, isn't it?
FourTeaFallOut · 09/10/2021 14:30

*It’s not about carbon emissions, it’s about the air quality in your home and your immediate surroundings.

Why can’t people understand this?*

Because they aren't wheezing and dying now they think that air pollution is a worry for other people. The silent risk of the pm in their own air on their own risks of poor lung health, dementia and cancer in the long term don't hit the radar.

KeflavikAirport · 09/10/2021 14:30

Tbf it is a huge problem in the third world. Caroline Criado Perez has a good section on it in her book.

godmum56 · 09/10/2021 14:30

[quote MojoMoon]@MinesAPintOfTea

House coal sales are being banned from May 2023 fyi

www.gov.uk/guidance/selling-coal-for-domestic-use-in-england[/quote]
but that's coal, not coke.

Cakeofdoom · 09/10/2021 14:32

Best avoid those naice woodfired pizzas in Waitrose and barbeques in the Summer then... 🤔

EvilPea · 09/10/2021 14:32

@NiceTwin

I live off grid, we have a wood burner but we rarely use the room it is in. We use the room with the open fire. We live in a smokeless zone and the goal merchant won't sell us house coal, even though they do stock it.
This may have changed but if I remember rightly canal boats can still use ‘house coal’ they are exempt.

Can’t imagine the number of them makes that much difference though

MapleMay11 · 09/10/2021 14:35

@nosyupnorth

They are looking at other options - e.g. using clean hydrogen instead of gas, etc.

Well what's the use of forcing us to use hydrogen? I don't have a clean cheap reliable source of that either, not any heater that runs off it. It's like how they keep touting 'heat pumps' as if everybody can spend thousands to have a hole ripped into their house to install a device with unknown reliability which is going to pump in the 'heat' from outside - all -5 degrees of it in winter which I'm sure will keep me nice and toasty.

I wonder if everybody crying about the health risks of air particles has even bothered to compare to the well known health risks of damp and underheated homes.

Good quality heat pumps work perfectly. I've lived in two houses with them, including the one I'm currently in. They're not cheap to purchase but 'unknown unreliability' is ridiculous.
AnotherThingToDo · 09/10/2021 14:36

I genuinely didn’t know they were as bad as this! We’re renovating a new home and planned to put one in but I don’t think I could justify it now

CovidCorvid · 09/10/2021 14:38

I have one. I am rural ish but we have gas so yes don’t need it. I didn’t know about the pollution (nobody talked about it ten years ago) when we fitted it. I mean obviously I knew that burning wood would cause some particles, etc but nobody spoke about it like they do now back then. Not sure I’d have had it fitted if I knew.

Saying that I will still use it….cost me 5k so I’m not having it as decoration. We’ve had two extended periods of time when I’ve been so glad we’ve had it. Once our boiler broke and it was a week to fix, in winter so no central heating…was a life saver. Another time the gas pipe to our village broke and nobody had any gas for two weeks. Again was very glad we had it.

Also with rising fuel bills I prefer to put the fire on….working my way through the pile of logs knowing how much I have left. Rather than putting the heating on and worrying how much it’s going to cost.

Plus how clean is the gas/electricity we get? There’s an environmental cost to everything. 🤷‍♀️

Cakeofdoom · 09/10/2021 14:40

The initial outlay is beyond the reach of most. I've costed this for my mum in case her oil boiler dies. In excess of 20k and the solid floor needs to come out...she'll struggle to do that on pension credit 🤔

Cakeofdoom · 09/10/2021 14:41

Sorry, meant to quote MapleMay and heat source pumps...

JassyRadlett · 09/10/2021 14:41

Well what's the use of forcing us to use hydrogen? I don't have a clean cheap reliable source of that either, not any heater that runs off it. It's like how they keep touting 'heat pumps' as if everybody can spend thousands to have a hole ripped into their house to install a device with unknown reliability which is going to pump in the 'heat' from outside - all -5 degrees of it in winter which I'm sure will keep me nice and toasty.

You know it’s not just moving air from the outdoor, right? There’s refrigerant liquid and a compressor involved.

Wait until I tell you about a crazy heat-exchange device called a ‘fridge’. It’ll blow your mind.

JassyRadlett · 09/10/2021 14:45

There’s a brilliant water-source heat pump system at a newish large apartment/hotel development in Kingston, which draws water from the Thames (not a notoriously warm body of water) to provide a district heating system for the whole development.

dailily · 09/10/2021 14:47

@julieca isn't gas mains on its way out too?!

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