To ask if you’ve met an infamous criminal?

[Anon778833]

Did they seem ‘normal’? Or did you get a strange feeling about them?

I find threads like this worrying actually.
I perpetuates the idea that we will be able ot spot criminals and that we can rely on our own brilliant good sense etc.
That is why so many people fall for scams etc, because they, subconsciously maybe, think that it woudln't happen to them because they would just 'know'

Obviously sometimes people are creepy/odd/ strange.

But many criminals, including some of the most dangerous, are very 'normal' people. This particularly applies to paedophiles who are often very good with children, which is why they (appear to) make excellent youth leaders/scout leaders etc, and why so many parents refuse to believe that that nice Mr X coudl have done that.

I knew a guy for 15 years. Mr ordinary, Mr nice guy next door.
He married a really close friend of mine. They were happily married for 12 years with kids.

then the police knocked on the door. To cut a long story short, he was convicted of rape of a 3 year old and possession of thousands of pornographic images of children. His wife had no idea, her world fell apart. He appeared to be an ordinary bloke. I had known him for years, there were no indicators, no clue.

Gary Glitter was my friends uncle. She used to boast about it so much at school. Not so much now!

Because of my job I spend most of my working day with at least 1 murderer on a daily basis, but the most notorious I've spent any significant time with are Tracie Andrews the infamous road rage killer & Jane Andrews, famous because she was Sarah Ferguson's dresser before she stabbed her boyfriend. Both perfectly pleasant to pass the time of day with.

Ive met 2 men that have killed their partners. Totally separate situations.

First one, I was 18. My very good friends dad killed her mum with a baseball bat after they had a row and then staged a break in, went out cycling and returned to "find her". He admitted it 3 weeks later, saying he had blocked it out and was remembering via flashbacks and dreams and only got 4 years. He was a lovely man and you wouldnt have expected it. Always very busy with work and out a lot but they had a seemingly idylic life. I saw him a few years ago at his daughters wedding and he was extremely sheepish. It was surreal but all their family seemed fine with him.

Second one was a young man (20ish) who lived next door to me murdered his girlfriend after a row in front of their 1 year old. Apparently he had been violent to her their whole relationship. He had always seemed extremely friendly and smiley. My neighbour went travelling abroad and rented his house out to them while he was gone. It was a large 4 bed house but neither of them worked. Found out in the end they paid the first months rent then none afterwards (and left the house torn apart). He came round to introduce himself the first day they moved in, seemed lovely and was always very high energy. She was very quiet and sullen and would pass you and ignore you (now we know why). If I went out into my garden she would go inside type of thing.

@Itsnotover I agree with you completely I have two autistic siblings and they wouldn't hurt a fly . People on the spectrum go through enough as it is

@EmeraldShamrock Mary Bell was given lifelong anonymity. She actually has a child of her own, a daughter.

My Dad's met a couple. He used to drink in the same pub as Tony Lambrianou who was an associate of the Krays. He also knew Nick Leeson who was the guy who bankrupted Barings Bank.

My husband worked for a convicted Murderer, who had previously been sentenced to death.

lawgovpol.com/case-study-leith-ratten/

@Hoppinggreen

Dr Harold Shipman Really nice quiet man with lovely manners. I met him professionally quite a few times and he seemed to really care about his patients, unlike a lot of GPs I dealt with. I am usually pretty good at reading people but he got right past me.

I used to work with people who had been patients of his. I remember during the case how angry people were that their lovely doctor was being unfairly accused of any wrongdoing. They thought the people accusing him were malicious and slanderous.

I knew Jeremy Bamber. Very charming, good looking and confident. Very good manners. Hindsight is a wonderful thing (so many people on here saying people were 'creepy' etc) but I didn't get any negative vibes and certainly had no idea he would do what he did.

@DoraMaude I worked with someone who went to school with his sister and knew the family (RIP) she didn't think he did it.

@EmeraldShamrock

(Mary Bell was only 10 so luckily young enough to have been rehabilitated I guess.* She was/is sadistic. I'm not convinced you can rehabilitate someone like that. After murdering the first boy she called to his home so she could see him in his coffin, planted sick notes. The 2nd boy had his genitals mutilated. I hope she's been under constant watch throughout her life.

I dunno, her mother neglecting her, rejecting her at birth, selling her to an unstable woman and allegedly encouraging her clients to abuse her in sadomasochistic dominatrix sessions suggest to me that it could have been nurture rather than nature.

I haven’t met any famous criminals myself but a friend of mine did recently get sent to prison for sexually abusing his 5 year old daughter. And in terms of creepiness the signs probably were there but we all thought he was harmless and socially awkward.

@twoshedsjackson a friend of my at secondary school always claimed she was from the Richardson family. I was in year 7 at the time and a total dweeb, but some boys said no one picks on you because they see you walking home with her. She lived in Petts wood. What did they do?

My mums uncle ran a vending machine business and I believe that type of thing is very mixed up with the SE London gangster scene, so I met a few wide boys. Always charming.

Yes many thieves ,gangsters etc they are usually very upfront about it all.
However some time ago I recognised a name in the national news a guy killed his girlfriend, hid the body etc . I would never have believed it was him, he seemed nice polite and well brought up , never been in trouble with the police . We were part of the same group of friends and was always one of the guys who would platonically make sure the girls got home safely. We still talk about it regularly 20 years on

@ITSSSSCHRISTMASSS there is a well known case like this in Lancashire but it can't be the one you are talking about as the victim was not (from what I have read) at all as you described the victim's father does a lot of campaigning in the local schools about actions/consequences?

My ex boyfriend was convicted of rape. I felt sick when I saw it in the news.

@HintofVintagePink

Knew this thread would be peppered with ‘ooh my relative knew the Krays’ stories.

I was taught at secondary school by a teacher who murdered his wife, who was also a teacher at the same school. She’d been having an affair with another teacher. Locally infamous man but apparently a completely normal family man and a popular teacher.

I wonder if we went to the same school!

I also trained under a brilliant professional. Looked him up last year as was surprised not to have heard about promotions etc. Turns out he's serving a 25 year sentence for some high profile (not infamous but local to where he was) paedophile offences. Shocked me to my core as he had been a delight to work with and one of the best mentors I'd ever had.

@Cissyandflora

I think that you have to say 'accused of murdering' rather than having 'murdered' given that he was found not guilty, despite it being down to the terrible deficiencies of the judicial system. Obviously most people believe that he did it. He used to live near to me. I never met him, but was thoroughly prepared to heckle him if ever I saw him. Such a travesty of justice. I feel for her poor family.

I have another Kray one except this was Charlie. Told MIL that dh was a bonny baby and gave her a quid when she bumped into him accidentally in Walthamstow market. How's that for crap! I think a lot of people in that neck of the woods and at that time used to mythologise those kind of encounters with a residual glamour. DHs family were mostly respectable working class but with flashes of that kind of east end cheeky chappy, fell off the back of a lorry, know a man down the pub vibe so this kind of meaningless encounter becomes noteworthy (Charlie ffs!).

DH also was taught PE by a convicted peadophile. DH was very sporty and in a lot of after school sports teams run by this man and was the right age and sex of the other victims at exactly when the man was convicted of his activities. He said neither him, his brothers or his mates ever got a whiff of anything from this man. He didn't like him but that was because he was a bit useless.

@Shallwegoforawalk

Can you not conflate Murderers with being on the spectrum please. Autistic people have enough prejudice to cope with without the assumption that we're also more likely to be sociopathic (we aren't)

Well if they were autistic and did kill someone, that's just the facts. About those 2 people only.

It's not saying ALL autistic people will murder someone! YOU are the one conflating it to a whole group not Emerald!

&QueenBee

I think what ShallWeGoForAWalk means is that the autism is being included as relevant when clearly all the people in this thread have some serious disconnect from normal healthy social relations/skills whether autistic or not. The fact that this example is of autistic people is an incidental not material factor (because autism doesn't equate to murderous) so shouldn't be uncluded as it creates a very unhelpful association which is likely to become part of the subconscious narrative of prejudice against autistic people.

Sorry, mangled my name checks there between reply and original pp

I think it was op who objected to autism being included.

I worked in a charity where many colleagues had been in prison, several were working while on day release.
Most were lovely, although petty (playground like) squabbles in the office that I've not experienced in other workplaces.
Some not open about why thery were in that situation, but I got on well with the person that had committed murder.

I met several criminals when I worked as an advice and guidance person in a prison which housed adult and YO prisoners, from cat C up to cat A and restricted offenders.

Many really did seem normal when I was doing 1:1 chats with them.
It was often difficult to link the person sat in front of you talking about their education/work plans inside to the person who's horrific criminal activity I'd just finished reading.

It was a very odd time.
I'd be talking about getting some basic English and Maths skills with a 19/20y man, and then reading that they'd done horrific things to another person.

Some were well publicised cases.

Very very few came across as evil monsters in those situations.

Scary really how easily they can switch between presenting themselves as a normal bloke and a horrendous hardened violent abusive criminal.