To ask if you’ve met an infamous criminal?

[Anon778833]

Did they seem ‘normal’? Or did you get a strange feeling about them?

@mollypuss1

My DH met Mary Bell when she was an adult. He didn’t know her history at the time and said she was lovely.

Mary Bell was only 10 so luckily young enough to have been rehabilitated I guess.

I was a prison officer for 20 years, met loads of them. Most were just the same as other inmates, a former cabinet minister was the tea boy on the wing I worked on.

Met a few footballers, one in particular was a jumped up prick who thought he was special.

@clpsmum

these are absolutely heartbreaking. As for JS I honestly don't know why nobody spoke up sooner it's soul destroying. His poor victims will never get any form of justice

My understanding is that many people, particularly women, reported their concerns but were never taken seriously.

My brother is a mass murderer. I was very young when it all happened, but from what I've been told/heard, he was always very strange. He'd had a very troubled childhood, not that it excuses his actions. I visited him a few years ago, to try and put an end to my own nightmares. He wasn't the monster I had painted in my head for so many years, but he was still strange and very mentally unwell.

@MotherOfUnicorns4

My brother is a mass murderer. I was very young when it all happened, but from what I've been told/heard, he was always very strange. He'd had a very troubled childhood, not that it excuses his actions. I visited him a few years ago, to try and put an end to my own nightmares. He wasn't the monster I had painted in my head for so many years, but he was still strange and very mentally unwell.

Wow that must be a real headfuck bless you. No need to answer if too personal but has he maintained a relationship with the wider family? I can't imagine how tough it must be for his parents for example. It's one of those situations where none of us know really what we would do when faced with it and thank goodness not many of us ever will be

Chatted with Ian Bailey In a charity shop. He was a very nice man, came from a town near where I used to live. He was accused (and convicted in his absence by a french court) of the murder of a woman in West cork.
He was just like any other person out shopping.

@Biscoffee

My DBs friend threw one punch at a guy who was trying to pick fights with everyone outside a takeaway after a night out, he was also harassing all the girls. When he started on my DBs friend the friend was trying to calm it all down but in the end had enough and punched the guy once. That was all it took. I actually felt sorry for him. He was the type of gentle guy who tried to calm things down. The guy that died was known to be a thug who was always causing trouble and beating up his girlfriends. Thankfully there was cctv and it was plain to see that my DBs friend wasn’t out for trouble

Swansea?

Lancashire.

Sadly all it takes is one punch and it happens far more often than people realise.

@Witchcraftandhokum

Raoul Most. He was a dick.

Me too I knew him through a girlfriend of his. Awful nasty man.

@youvegottenminuteslynn it was too difficult for anyone to maintain a relationship with him as some of his victims were too close to home. It affected us all far too much and still does decades later. I find it a lot easier to talk about these days, in a cold, clinical kind of way as I have spent years trying to deal with the emotions and feelings it can cause. I'm still undergoing therapy because of what happened and being brought up by our mother who was an evil narcissist who probably kick started his own troubled childhood. I opened this thread hoping someone would mention him, but they haven't. I search for answers I will never find. I know this all sounds a bit cryptic, but I can't say who he is. I wish I had the guts to.

@Westfacing Yes, she was Filipino! Such a seemingly nice, normal person. Although she claimed that even though she was at the house, she didn’t do it.

[quote MotherOfUnicorns4]@youvegottenminuteslynn it was too difficult for anyone to maintain a relationship with him as some of his victims were too close to home. It affected us all far too much and still does decades later. I find it a lot easier to talk about these days, in a cold, clinical kind of way as I have spent years trying to deal with the emotions and feelings it can cause. I'm still undergoing therapy because of what happened and being brought up by our mother who was an evil narcissist who probably kick started his own troubled childhood. I opened this thread hoping someone would mention him, but they haven't. I search for answers I will never find. I know this all sounds a bit cryptic, but I can't say who he is. I wish I had the guts to.[/quote]
It's completely your information to deal with however works for you, don't ever feel pressure to share more than you want to. I know that myself I would feel morbid curiosity and a need to 'understand' (as much as anyone could) but also appreciate it would be fruitless as 'we' can't really understand the experience of people who are fundamentally wired differently / sociopathic / psychopathic / disconnected from reality due to deep trauma etc.

It sounds like you've done so well to build your own life separately to the identity of being someone's brother. It must have been really tough at times and I hope at some point that wherever you're based you got support if needed but I know that resources for the innocent family members of violent criminals is woefully inadequate, in the UK at least.

Not an infamous criminal, but I sat next to a girl at school for five years. She was an arrogant bully who thought that she was superior to everyone and far cleverer. She was also inwardly jealous. She went on to kill my friend's step mum, then having murdered her, she took over her identity and took over her house, having dragged the body out into the garden. I wasn't altogether surprised. She was a psychopath at school.

@youvegottenminuteslynn thank you. Your message means a lot and is more supportive than I could have expected. I took a big step posting here because I'm always wary of speaking up and you have helped me to feel glad I did. I have spent many years crying out for help and have only just started to get somewhere over the last year. It has been a very slow process and will take years. To tell you the truth I don't think I will ever heal as it is all just who I am now as too long has passed. I was kept hidden from help and support as a child and teenager and as an adult is has taken me a very long time to find my voice to fight for the correct therapy.

My step father also worked as a contractor for nicholas van hoogstraten on his 'Hamilton Palace'. He had to track him down to try and hand him the company invoices, but apparently he would just keep disappearing down long corridors and instead had several 'hench men' who would prowl around glaring. My step dad is the loveliest mildest mannered chap, so the thought of the poor man having to try and play cat and mouse with him whilst trying to avoid his hench men always makes he chuckle. It just must have been horrendous.

[quote MrsCardone]@Westfacing Yes, she was Filipino! Such a seemingly nice, normal person. Although she claimed that even though she was at the house, she didn’t do it.[/quote]
It's coming up to 40 years now - I wonder how long she served.

I was at uni with a nurse convicted of murder his case was quite big
It's now being disputed from what I knew and remember of him he was a fab nurse I struggled to believe he did it 😞

@MorriseysGladioli it wasn't in Portsmouth was it?

@MotherOfUnicorns4

I cannot simply imagine what you and your family have been through. Unfortunately life can be not only extremely hard, but also very confusing. I don't believe that people are evil as such, but it's usually very complicated. A mixture of personal difficult circumstances, inherited personality traits, biological factors and mental issues. Trying to resolve feelings can be exhausting trying to understand and assign fault because there will be different feelings attached. Also, there will most likely be so few people to actually discuss it with. I had a bit of a confusing time trying to resolve a family issue whereby my feelings were all over the place. It wasn't straight forward and I just couldn't grieve their death in a normal way. What I went through was nothing compared to you though. I was still unable to discuss it with many of friends/family growing up, but I moved abroad for a bit and found that I was able to discuss it with strangers in a detached sort of way, knowing that they didn't know anyone involved and couldn't judge them. My in laws and husband's side of the family still have no idea and I have never opened up to them about my family, nor to my own children. I hope that you find strength and some liberation sharing some details with strangers who are unable to judge your brother and whom certainly won't judge you.

[quote MotherOfUnicorns4]@youvegottenminuteslynn thank you. Your message means a lot and is more supportive than I could have expected. I took a big step posting here because I'm always wary of speaking up and you have helped me to feel glad I did. I have spent many years crying out for help and have only just started to get somewhere over the last year. It has been a very slow process and will take years. To tell you the truth I don't think I will ever heal as it is all just who I am now as too long has passed. I was kept hidden from help and support as a child and teenager and as an adult is has taken me a very long time to find my voice to fight for the correct therapy.[/quote]
You're so welcome. This is nowhere near on the same scale but my brother has very little empathy for people and a cruel streak. There's no 'reason' for him to be that way other than being wired differently. He was like it as soon as I was born when he was as three years old. It's made me realise that the nature / nurture debate is fascinating to scientists because there are always outliers to 'reasons why' that can't be explained other than being wired differently.

I'm so pleased you feel you have now found some sort of therapy that is yours and yours only to process being affected by his behaviour. I really feel for the family of perpetrators and if I didn't know my brother, I would probably think 'there must have been signs' / why didn't anyone do anything etc but I know 100% that some people cannot be cured / stopped / controlled.

Be proud you are so self aware and have an identity separate to him. You're your own person

Yes

One made me feel very uncomfortable he was a serial rapist

I have worked with those considered psychopaths it isn’t true all are charming most seem quite normal but if they are angry with you or feeling paranoid you can certainly feel it without them expressing it

Some sex offenders would certainly give you the creeps others not at all

@MotherOfUnicorns4 I'm sorry you've had to carry that through life.

@SallyOMalley

I worked with this woman for a couple of years. We used to chat and she seemed nice, if somewhat distant and aloof. I never really got to know HER, if you know what I mean.

I only found out what she had done after thinking about that particular job and idly googled a few names. I was utterly shocked when her name came up.

What's very worrying is that she was a pschotherapist, but is described as having a personality disorder!

(Mary Bell was only 10 so luckily young enough to have been rehabilitated I guess.*
She was/is sadistic.
I'm not convinced you can rehabilitate someone like that.
After murdering the first boy she called to his home so she could see him in his coffin, planted sick notes.
The 2nd boy had his genitals mutilated.
I hope she's been under constant watch
throughout her life.

@Cheeserton

What does "on holiday" with Rose West mean? Actually on holiday with her, or what?

Probably on holiday at Her Majesty's Service.

Not met at such but my dad grew up 'back to back' with Mira Hindley. He lived as a child in the terrace that backed onto hers.

He always said how normal she was. Lost touch and moved away before she met ian Brady b