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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was this abusive or was I just stupid?

123 replies

KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 17:50

Some years ago I was very casually 'seeing' a minor celebrity who has been and still appears on TV occasionally.

He was late 30s, I was mid-20s and unemployed. I was in a bad space and living alone following a weird breakup.

The first time we had sex I was extremely drunk but consented.
Immediately and entirely out of the blue he began calling me derogatory, misogynistic, women-hating names during sex but I laughed it off as I didn't want to cause a scene. It was painful and angry, like being stabbed. I pretended to enjoy it.

We met up several more times, always ending in sex and always the same. I carried on because I hoped he'd grow to like me.

He let me know exactly what he thought of me by telling me I would never meet his parents or anyone else important in his life.

Finally I didn't hear from him for a while and I moved on.

It wasn't until some years later that I realised how wrong this all was. The reality probably obscured by being in thrall.

I would have probably not let these memories bother me so much, but the fact that he has used his profile to raise £100,000s for women's charities astounds me.

Perhaps it's because he feels guilty. Perhaps it's because he wishes to portray himself as a nice family man.

I haven't ever told anyone IRL the full details. I know he was seeing other people at the time so there will most likely be people out there with similar stories.

Was this abusive, or was I stupid? Probably both!

OP posts:
JacquelineCarlyle · 07/10/2021 17:57

He doesn't sound nice but it also doesn't sound abusive to me - although sorry that you put yourself through that!

Dillydollydingdong · 07/10/2021 17:59

Both, I think!

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 18:06

Thanks for your thoughts. Reading this all back I do sound so pathetic!

It's like I wanted it to be ok and not horrible and abusive because I had no clue how to handle that. I worry that my lack of complaint only encouraged him to be disrespectful to other people.

OP posts:
Orangejuicemarathoner · 07/10/2021 18:09

That was the type of sex he was into, and you went along with it, so no, not abusive. I wouldn't like it, many wouldn't but many would too.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 18:12

I was shocked I suppose, to be having a perfectly lovely (through incredibly drunken) time, then to suddenly be called, with an angry frown on his face a "fucking bitch, fucking whore" and feel like I was being attacked.

OP posts:
Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 18:13

Though I suppose by not stopping him I was giving implied consent to be treated that way

OP posts:
JacquelineCarlyle · 07/10/2021 18:16

Your latest update reads like you're trying to make yourself a victim. He sounds horrible but you sound like you consented, so it's unfair to now try to call it abuse.

TurnUpTurnip · 07/10/2021 18:16

I’m not sure if I would say it was abusive? If you kept meeting up with him he probably thought tou was ok with it? Some women are up for being called names in the bedroom

KarmaStar · 07/10/2021 18:18

What is it you want from this op because I don't think Aibu is the right place to get answers/help for this.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 18:20

it's unfair to now try to call it abuse

I'm genuinely open to opinions as I can't decide how to think about it.

I know that if my own daughter was in a £million home of a celebrity and was so drunk she'd been vomiting, I'd hope he wouldn't then take her to bed and start calling her derogatory names!

Part of me wonders that my making it ok for him didn't negate the fact that it was a bit shitty of him in the first place.

OP posts:
Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 18:21

What is it you want from this op

I suppose opinions on if this was normal or not!

OP posts:
Joolsin · 07/10/2021 18:25

I totally disagree with most other pps, this was most definitely abusive and definitely not normal either. He was an older man in a powerful position and he took advantage of that, op.

NewlyGranny · 07/10/2021 18:28

I think you dodged a bullet. One you could have dodged faster if you'd been older and more experienced, but he probably chose you for youth and malleability.

Do you think it has harmed you or are you just a bit disgusted with him? The misogyny was just under his skin by the sound of it.

UnfinishedBunting · 07/10/2021 18:28

Have you posted this before?

Feelslikealot · 07/10/2021 18:32

know that if my own daughter was in a £million home of a celebrity and was so drunk she'd been vomiting, I'd hope he wouldn't then take her to bed and start calling her derogatory names!

Either you were sober enough to consent or you weren't. It's not very clear, from this you seem to be saying you weren't in a position to consent, in your op you said you definitely consented. Only you know whether you consented or not. If you did consent, and weren't too drunk to, then no it's not abuse. Not all sex that you don't enjoy is necessarily abusive. If you were too drunk to consent then it's rape.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 18:32

Thanks for further responses.

Do you think it has harmed you or are you just a bit disgusted with him? The misogyny was just under his skin by the sound of it

Both really - it did nothing for my self-esteem! And I'm increasingly disgusted with him as time goes on, as misogyny is increasingly rejected more and more

Have you posted this before

No - but there may be others out there who have similar stories as he was quite the shagger I later learned

OP posts:
Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 18:35

Thanks feelslikealot - makes sense.

It's a long time ago but I was happy to initiate sex. I seem to remember putting my hand down in a 'guarding' way and saying 'ow' because it hurt, but I didn't say no. And can't 100% trust this memory as I was very drunk indeed!

OP posts:
MimiDaisy11 · 07/10/2021 18:37

I don’t like the way men like this behave. It’s a grey area though as they treat you badly but women return to them voluntarily.

Underamour · 07/10/2021 18:40

Honestly you will find there are alot of misogynistic men out there. In the 20’s people focus on looks not personality. So basically lots of people have had that treatment. That said, women do it to men too.

There used to be a culture of women throwing themselves at celebs and celebrities treating them badly. I hope you are happy now Flowers

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 18:43

There used to be a culture of women throwing themselves at celebs and celebrities treating them badly. I hope you are happy now

I am, thank you x

Yes, this is something Katherine Ryan has been talking about in her podcast, and it chimed with me.

OP posts:
Scarlettpixie · 07/10/2021 18:46

I don’t think it was abusive as you consented. I think you need to let it go. Some women like to be called names in the bedroom.

BeautifulandWilfulandDead · 07/10/2021 18:58

@JacquelineCarlyle

Your latest update reads like you're trying to make yourself a victim. He sounds horrible but you sound like you consented, so it's unfair to now try to call it abuse.
I imagine that many young women don't recognise abuse at the time, and only learn to do so when they have more life experience and a more developed sense of self-worth. Consent in sexual relationships should mean 'enthusiastic agreement' - a woman who allows something to happen that makes her uncomfortable because she is too confused/shocked/shitfaced to make it stop is perfectly entitled to consider that she's been abused!
VladmirsPoutine · 07/10/2021 19:05

I'm going to go against the grain and say yes it was abusive. There are some things that happen in our lives that years later hit us like a locomotive and we realise just how fucked up it actually was - this sounds like one such instance. Youth, coercion, low self-esteem / self-worth and a low mood aren't a healthy mix and can leave someone wide open to all sorts of nefarious things.

SpidersAreShitheads · 07/10/2021 19:06

It doesn't sound like a very healthy relationship dynamic, but at the same time I can't see that it's abusive. You seem to be stretching to make yourself a victim here, maybe as a defence mechanism as looking back it all feels a bit sleazy perhaps?

Some women enjoy being called names like slut, whore etc as it's a type of role-play, fantasy etc. Likewise, some men enjoy being degraded and dominated by women. If it's not your thing, that's fine but that doesn't make the sex abusive. And if you didn't tell him at any point that you didn't like it then did he have any way of knowing that you weren't into it too?

And of course, porn absolutely has an influence too - that type of sex talk is common in porn.

Also, just reading back over your post, the fact that he told you that you'd never meet his parents, friends etc doesn't mean it was abusive either. Nor does it make him toxic. He was obviously telling you very clearly that this was a fuck buddy situation - and you had a choice of whether to accept that or not. If you harboured hopes that it would transpire into something more, that's not really his fault because he was clear with you about what he wanted. You almost seem to be complaining that he was honest with you about the fact that he only wanted to hang out for sex.

The fact that he got his rocks off with that kind of sex doesn't mean he can't possible be a family man now, and doesn't mean that he isn't genuine about raising money for women's charities. If he treats women with respect outside the bedroom, then acting out fantasies doesn't mean he's a terrible person.

Of course, he may be an absolute shitbag but the point is that we can't tell on the basis of your time with him.

ConfusedNoMore · 07/10/2021 19:07

I don't think Aibu will help you here.

Ask for this to be moved if you want help with thinking through your feelings. Flowers